Youth Ministry Booster
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Youth Ministry Booster
198: How the first century youth ministry has a discipleship plan for twenty first century w/ Heather Quiroz Youth Cartel
In episode 198 of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast Zac sits down with new author and new mom Heather Quiroz to talk about her book "First-Century Youth Ministry: Exploring Our Jewish Roots to Reclaim Discipleship."
About the guest:
"Heather loves Jesus, youth ministry, laughing at silly things, and eating at Indian lunch buffets. She’s the wife of Rodrigo and is a gifted teacher and speaker with over fifteen years of youth ministry experience. She and her husband recently welcomed a baby girl to their family. Heather is learning to speak Spanish (hola) and is the student ministries pastor at Shelbyville Community Church in Shelbyville, IN. She also works as a staff consultant with Ministry Architects and holds a master’s degree in youth ministry leadership from Huntington University."
Check out more from Heather here.
[inaudible][inaudible]
Speaker 2:what's up everybody? This is Zach from youth and shoe booster. Excited to share with you a new resource from a new author. A new mom. Had the key Rose with some of our friends at the youth cartel has written a book about early church, first century discipleship that we think is brilliant. It's smart, it's sharp, it's helpful and maybe even more, especially in these times of thinking about what it means to truly make disciples. I think for so many youth ministry folks, this is the place that we wanted to get to and Heather's book is a helpful guide and restoring us to some of our early church discipleship roots. And so please check it out and enjoy this interview with Heather as we talk about first century youth ministry and what that early process of discipleship, uh, all the way back to Jesus and before brings us into today. So
Speaker 1:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hey everybody. Welcome back to another interview episode of these wintry Brewster podcast. I'm here with a new friend. I'm excited because I like writers. I like people that serve in youth ministry and I love people in the Midwest. And Heather. Heather Key Rose with us today. I got a brand new book, a new resource, and then also I'm just excited to hear
Speaker 3:some more from you friend. We had a great conversation on the pre show and so Heather, how are you doing today? I'm fabulous. My baby is down for a nap. She's got a full belly and said you've got a fresh book, but you also got a fresh baby. So uh, parents and youth ministry. Heather, before we get into the content, let's get into the context of life. What's it like parent first time man, seven, nine weeks. I can't do math. It's like seven ish weeks. Seven weeks before. Yeah, fresh. It's all fresh. You had your first nap in six weeks last week. How did it feel? And it was amazing. Actually, I've taken more naps this past seven weeks and my whole life, but lots of short naps, right? Like a lot of 90 minute naps. Not a lot of eight hours of sleep make. No, I don't remember the last time I got eight hours of straight sleep. That was the free baby for sure. Okay. All right. Well that's, we are excited to hear from you. So anything that we like, we'll keep. Anything that we're unsure about, we'll chalk up to just baby tiredness. Thank you, Jesus. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Hey, it's new mom brain. She can say whatever she wants. It's super exciting. So, no, that's good. Heather. Uh, what, when was seriously though, what's the first baby? What's, what's it like? Tell me, tell me about the joys of, of parenting for the very first time. What, it's true that a baby changes everything. What is the thing that's been changed that you didn't think would it be changed? Everybody knows we're tired or buddy knows that like they have a demanding schedule, but there's something that you were like, I forgot how much this was, what we used to do.
Speaker 4:Uh, being able to like easily get in the car and easily go into the store and easily get a cart and easily leave the store and easily, yeah, all that type of stuff. Like it's just not a thing anymore. It's like lugging this baby around sometimes. Like you go to these places and they have like these tiny shopping carts and I'm like, my baby takes up the whole shopping cart. Like Whoa, what do I put my stuff?
Speaker 3:Two cart knit, two car got a cart for the kid and the carpenter. No, that's right. So how do you yeah, if you're, if your shopping list is two items, you just don't go. We just, we just,
Speaker 4:no you don't because you're like, what's the point? It's way too much work to go to the store. That's why Amazon is my absolute best,
Speaker 3:really. Especially for the things you already know are going to fit and what size and how often and what quantity. Like just let them do the work. Right. Okay. Okay. So fair, fair. So, so there's no quick target trips left in your life? That's a yeah. Yeah. Now they're gone. It's, it's happened and, and you know, it's all right. That's okay. Thanks Kevin Brown boxes now. So it's exciting. Well, Heather, tell us a little bit, so you, you're actually in the Midwest serving in Shelbyville. Uh, tell us a little bit about what that's been like. How long you've been there involved in youth ministry and why in the world you would pick to do that of anything else that's going on as a job function. Career, profession.
Speaker 4:Wow. Yeah. That's crazy, right? That is, you know, people tell me sometimes they're like, I think you have to be a special person to work with middle school students. This is what people tell me. I'm like, they're calling me special. I think I'm going to say that's okay. Right?
Speaker 3:You're a class a person that we can't quite identify. That's it.
Speaker 4:It's right. So I started out in youth ministry when I was in college and then I happened to full time youth ministry probably around the age of like 24 ish, 25 something like that. And I served at a church in Illinois for about nine years. And then my husband and I just moved to Indiana and I just started here at, uh, Shelbyville community church in may.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:19 so brand new, brand new. Yeah. So, but I love youth ministry. It's like one of those things that brings me a lot of joy and it makes my heart dance inside a little bit. I know that sounds really cheesy and stuff, but it's really true. So
Speaker 3:well he is. But that's the question though. Did you grow up in a great youth ministry or is this a little bit like, I didn't have youth ministry and it's super exciting and I want others to have a great youth ministry. Like what on the scale of, I had a great one, let's keep it going to mine. Wasn't so great. It is it, is it keep the party going or is this more of a redemptive act?
Speaker 4:I mean, we didn't really have how much of a youth ministry in my church growing up. And so I was a really lonely teenager that, um, I dealt with depression and um, an eating disorder and suicidal thoughts and things like that. And so I guess maybe the Lord is working out in my life what I wish I would have had as a young person. I'm a safe place to share my, um, a way to connect with adults who could help me in the junk that I was dealing with. Right. And so I guess in a way it is a redemptive thing that God is doing in my life. For sure.
Speaker 3:I love it. Now it seems to be that way, right? Either this is like I give back what is true or God is trying to do something new that I want to be a part of. That's, that's wonderful to hear. So thank you for that work. Especially in the lives of middle school students. Um, they are,
Speaker 4:it's such a formative age. Yeah, I do middle school and high school, but totally all of them are. They're the bomb. They're great. I love them.
Speaker 3:I love it. Uh, okay. So you've written a book, you serve any student ministry. We kind of ask the question on the pre-show. Uh, your book is first century youth ministry or youth ministry in the first century by our friends over at the cartel. Um, unpack that like an unpack like, uh, that title, where you coming from, what was your heart behind it? Uh, I'm excited for our listeners to learn a little bit more about the story behind the book.
Speaker 4:Awesome. So like I mentioned in the pre show back in 2011, I took a trip with athletes in action over to Israel and it, it really forever changed my life. Um, probably one of my top five experiences in my life where I was pretty ignorant when it came to the Bible and understanding the history and the culture and the context of it prior to, and when I stepped onto the land of Israel, it was like, it was like somebody like shook me and woke me up. Like that's all I can explain is like, it was like all of a sudden my eyes were open to this truth in these treasures and all these things I was learning from a first century context and from the Eastern world. And our director, John, was passionate about helping us walk the land of the Bible as if we were a first century Jewish disciple. So every day we would wake up, we'd pack our bags, we get tons of water and you know, snacks and stuff like that. And we would just hike miles and miles and miles and we would walk around the best, the land of Israel along all these different biblical sites. And you know, these other tour groups should have like their bus that would take them up as far as humanly possible. And we like hiked instead, you know, because we were trying to live it as if we were literally following Jesus in the first century. And so, um, it was amazing. Uh, and so I came back from Israel and there was just this spark that was lit inside of me, uh, to understand Jesus from his first century context. And so I, right, as much as watched as much, listened to as much stuff as I could about, um, that world that he lived in. And so for those a few years, I would just dig it in the things and learning and, um, teaching my teenagers as well. And, uh, when I went on a break from ministry, I took about a year and a half break where I stepped away from my full time job in Illinois to kind of enter into the season of rest and healing. Um, I came up with this idea, I had this time for the first time my life to write a book. And um, I threw out the idea to Marco at the youth cartel and he said, let's do it. He loved the idea, the intersection of youth ministry and the first century. So I just took the two things that I was passionate about and I said, let's go for it and let's see what it has to teach us about the Seipel ship. Because during that time where I was on a hiatus from a full time youth ministry, I was doing more work with ministry architects. I worked for them as well. And I kept having these conversations with youth leaders around the country and they kept saying, Heather, we're doing discipleship all wrong. And I thought, you know, I've really been studying this first century Judaism and I wonder if I might have something to say that could help benefit the youth ministry community in light of this question of how can we do discipleship better?
Speaker 3:Well, and I think that's one of the things that we mentioned earlier is that this seems to be the word that we're trying to figure out right now, whether it's because we live in a culture of likes and follows, right? Like I think there's a, there's an open invitation of what is the word follow mean and that follow word sure evokes a lot of new Testament language of disciple-making. There's some language you use about apprenticeship, which for all of my Dallas Willard reading a big fan of that language, but even that word that's maybe like 300 years newer, uh, or 300 years less removed or whatever. Like it also feels like a really foreign distant far away concept from a student living in 2020 that's super autonomous and has access to the infinite like w what, what are some of the things about the call of discipleship that you think are so important and what are some of the things that you think, just kind of jumping into this conversation for a youth pastor, like we're naming it as the issue, but what is, what is the hangup? Are we having trouble describing it or are we having trouble kind of playing it out?
Speaker 4:I think it's definitely, we're having trouble playing it out. I think, you know, it's just like anything, right? Like we know we need eat better, we know need to exercise more, but it's a matter of putting it into practice and actually doing it right. A lot of the times we just get caught up with a wave of the culture and we just kind of ride that wave, whether that's good for us or bad for us. And unfortunate, I think the way that Mmm, that we've written, uh, in the church is we've gotten sucked into this idea of the church needs to be about something impressive or it needs to be about something that it's good to people or it needs to be about something that we can say, well look, we've done a good job for Jesus. Right? And I'm not saying that's true of all churches, but I think to some degree our Western culture has kind of maybe look at church as something that they can get a Pat on the back from. Um, and because of that it becomes kind of a performance mentality, uh, where we care more about the program than we do about the person in the program. And I think that's one of the hang ups that we have is that sometimes it's easy to slip away from just, Hey, let's just strip back a life. Let's, let's pull away from busy-ness, pull away from the need to perform and let's just get into doing life together. Let's get into the simplicity of what Jesus practices in the first century. Because really it's not anything like that we can't do. It's really a matter of priority when it comes to applying these first century principles.
Speaker 3:Hmm. Do you think, and again I think it's that that language, it's the same diet language, it's the same health language that in other areas of our own student ministry, youth ministry leadership that are often lacking in the ways in which we try to map out a week or keep up with levels of communication. Like is it as much an internal issue of our own discipleship as it is like a programmatic effort, uh, to create disciples? What would be, I mean, again, what is your feedback from studying first century stuff and then kind of living and walking this out? Is it, is it willpower? Is it motivation? I mean I think, I think some of these things like, I mean almost kind of pushed back on the notion of what discipleship even means, but at the same time pastorally like we're working to create disciples like, well what, what is the disconnect for us that might prevent this from happening in the lives of our students?
Speaker 4:I think it's a matter of priority and a matter of time, uh, you know, like for example, in chapter five of the book, I tell the story of pastor Billy and his wife Katie, uh, at new life fellowship in East Moline. And pretty much the chapter is on doing life together. And these two, they just are all for it. They are all in with you when it comes to doing, like together, they take a small group of students on a, a little over a three week discipleship journey where you're literally for 24, seven for three entire weeks, they're with each other the entire time. And they're doing life together. And in that three weeks they see more life transformation and life change. Then they probably do the whole year because, because conversations get real with each other because life gets shared because hard things happen and they have to work through it. And because kids are able to have a space to share maybe what's really going on in their lives. And so, you know, when it comes to discipleship, it's really about how much time am I willing to invest in the lives of people because if we, if we see Jesus, he wasn't so much concerned about the program or how many people were there, but the individual with whom he was with in that shared space. And so I think what, what teenagers are looking for within, um, our youth ministries are a place to be seen, a place to be known and a place to be loved. And if we can create a place where the culture and the context of discipleship is one in which we are invested in the life of that young person, we know their name, we know what their likes are, we know their hurts and their pains and their disappointments, then they're going to trust us and they're going to come to our youth group even when maybe it's not the most fun or even when maybe, you know, the band isn't playing or something like that because they have a connection with an adult who cares for them and who loves them. Right? I mean, this is what we see in the life of Jesus. Is that a first century rabbi, you know, Jesus is 30 years old. And in my book I discuss the age of the disciples and how, um, in the first century, Jewish boys and girls will start out in what was called bed Cepher, which was primary school, which would end around the age of 10. The Jewish boys would continue on, it was called[inaudible] and only the best of the best would continue on from there to follow a great rabbi. And that was somewhere between the ages of 15 and 18. And we see in Matthew 17 that only Jesus and Peter pay the temple tax, which was required for those 20 years older and above, thus showing us that the disciples, except for Peter, were teenagers. And Jesus was essentially their youth pastor, right. And he invested in them and he cared for them and he walked with them and he did life with them. And because of that, they changed the world, right. Because they wanted to be just like their rabbi. And so, you know, the kids that I see that stay connected and plugged in the most and that grill his disciples the most are those that have the deepest connections with other adults who are invested in their life. You know, I share the story of Francisco in my book too, about, um, he was a young man who came from a really dysfunctional fractured family and this bus ministry started picking him up for church and he said, Heather, that little church literally became my family. Um, they bought me Christmas gifts. They paid for my way to camp. They gave me keys to the church, they helped me get into college. They, I did everything for me. And uh, he said, you know, Heather, I call a lot of the older ladies in that church mom, and they still check in on me. And if it weren't for that church, um, I don't know where I would be and see that that's what discipleship is, right? Where we come alongside of people. Because here's the thing, right? And I was actually just thinking about this earlier today in Jesus, in the Jewish educational system. Again, you know, when you continue on, you would get to a point where you would follow a great rabbi. But how it worked was, is that you would approach your rabbi and ask if you could follow them. And that rabbi had every right to say no. Um, I don't want you to follow me because I don't think you have what it takes to be my disciple. And Jesus flips it around and he goes to the young men who were no longer in the Jewish educational system, right? Which tells us that they were dropouts. They didn't make the cut, not the academic best that all students see students. Right? Right. They really were. And essentially what the message that they heard over and over again was, I don't have it. And Jesus goes to them and he says, come and follow me. And from a first century context, what he's saying is, I think that you can be like me. And that changes everything for them. And so I think we have teenagers in remit. We just want to know that somebody believes in them. Um, and I think this is the thing, and if I can press on for some folks that are listening, like if we want to get nitty about
Speaker 3:doing analogous youth ministry to Jesus or comparative youth ministry to Jesus, it's smaller than we're working with. It's less probably talented than you currently possess. Uh, and in many ways we're asking more of them than we're currently asking now. And I think there's a lot of things about our current modeling of youth ministry of we want to be as, as big as possible, have as many as possible. And we want to have, you know, bright and shiny faces of students that are leading out. Like that may not always be true. And I think, and it's not that we can't have, because Jesus was very good at having both a crowd and disciples. And I think that there is element of, you know, you draw a crowd, but you also have disciples. But if you're going to invoke the word discipleship, I think you have to understand how deeply committed you have to be and how much you're allowed to ask of them because of the deep commitment you have to them. So Heather paint for us a picture of like, okay, like I agree Heather, like discipleship is the thing. Like what are we actually asking to do beyond just what we're doing with, because I think that, I think maybe that's a little bit of a thing to make the separation is like when, when you say you're discipling young people, that may not be the entire group of students and our youth group and it, and it may not be, you know, you may have layers and levels of adults that help disciple so that you can disciple more than just the, you know, the 10 or the 12 that that are yours. But like what are we actually asking to do as like the structure of the content of discipleship. What are the things that that like we can measure and Mark and replicate, like steer us into not another program. Because I think a lot of times if we get too complicated on the program, that's the thing that really hinders us from being able to replicate it because there's so many booklets and handouts and documents and whatever, like like give us the, like these, these are the fundamental practices of like if we're walking around with these young people have, these are the ones that are in the followership, the dust of the sharing the shoes. What are the things that we're doing together?
Speaker 4:Sure. So while we see that Jesus practiced a ministry and a life of, of doing life together, right? Like where they actually went and did ministry together, they heal the sick, they did all these things that involved action and putting their faith into practice. And so when we talk about discipleship, we're not just talking about studying the Bible together. That is one element. Absolutely it an important element for sure. What we're talking about, putting the scriptures into practice and that's what we saw pastor Billy and Katie do in the chapter five that I wrote about. I remember one time I took my students out to write scripture verses with sidewalk chalk and our downtown area and just kind of like to do a little bit of sidewalk evangelism, if you will. Right. And, um, so like it was so wild because as we're doing that, this young man approaches us who was a Satanist and just started talking with us about, you know, God. And there was a moment for me as a youth pastor to say this is real discipleship. Like as we were talking with this young man, my students were happiness and kind of like talking about Jesus with him. And I was talking about Jesus with him. And you know, I think it's, I know organic is kind of a buzz word right now, right? But I think it's a lot of the high degree, it really is maybe a little bit more organic. It's not so much like, Oh, you know, um, if there's a cookie cutter way in which I'm supposed to have this, a conversation with a student and therefore I'm making him or her a disciple. Again, I think it's, as we look at the life of the first century, we see that there was a high value on community and not on the individual. We see that there's a high value on mentorship and that's how ministry was passed down from one generation to the next. You know, we see in the life of Elijah where he takes his cloak and he throws it over Elisha. And in doing that, he's transferring his prophetic office from him onto Alicia. And so, you know, in that it's like, wow, ah, here's this opportunity that Elijah has given. And now he follows after Lija and Elijah teaches him about how he knows how to follow God. Right. And I share another story in the book about a woman named Jeannie, in fact, teenager named Cassidy and Jeannie's a retired teacher. She's 50 years older than Cassidy and they have a tremendous mentoring relationship and God is using that in a transformative way for both of them. So we also see that in the life of first century Judaism, is there a, a love for and appreciation for the older generations of the church? Right? And so we see this another, it's this aspect of doing life together where it's very communal in the sense that it's older is hanging with a young and they're loving it. Right. And outsourcing of the somewhat older than young with the youngest, right. It is from top to bottom. Absolutely. Yeah. My, my absolute favorite story in the book is, um, about a guy named Ray and Ray is right. Um, I don't have a re as exac. I have a Milt, wherever Ray is. Tell him from one Zach to another, Zach and Ray, that Zach and Milt say thank you. But yes. Yes. That's awesome. Tell us more about red. Sure. So I remember my friend Zach, he's youth pastor in Bettendorf, Iowa, and he told us one time we're having this training event and he was telling us about this youth leader that he has. It's like one of his most loved youth leaders who's 90 years old. And I was like, nah, no way. That's not even a thing. Right? Like there's no way possible. Right. And so, but when I went to write this book and I got to the chapter on, uh, the generations and the family and, and all that integration, I just contacted my friend Zach and I said, look, is Rachel in your ministry? He's like, Oh yeah. And he's rocking it, you know? And so I was like, well, I just got to talk to Ray. I got to get to know this guy. And so I sat down with Ray and I interviewed him and it was wild. He told me, he said, Heather, I started out serving in youth ministry around the age of 70 because there was a gap at his church where the youth pastor left and he and this other guy were like, let's step up and do it. And he's like, Heather, I've been serving in youth ministry ever since. And it has been one of the best decisions of my life. And he's one of the most loved people at that youth ministry because he told me, he said, Heather, I might not, you know, the one of the most hip people out there. But what I do have is I care about the students. I love them and they know that I care about them and I'm invested in them. And so because of that, they don't care how old I am. They don't care that I'm 92 years old and that, you know, I have some gray hairs. Right? They just see that I love them and that I care about them. And, and Ray told me that every week he brings a three by five note cards and ask the students how you can pray for them. And um, he does it and he follows up with them the week after so that they know that he's praying for them. So it's such a great, I love that story because it just encourages me and it should encourage us as youth pastors to go to the older generations of our church and say, look, we need you. It's not a thing of like, I just have this gap. I need some small group leaders. Can you please come help me?
Speaker 3:No, no, we actually, we actually are better because I think if there, if there was anybody that was listening that maybe is like, I don't know, um, how to make this discipleship thing work. Uh, I honestly like I think, I think the most practical thing you could do is find somebody who's already less hurried. Uh, which means probably older. I guess. One of the things I think is such a, that's great. We, we find people that are already really busy and really full and they have newborn kiddos or they're trying to manage it. Like, like honestly, people in their mid thirties are not your worst volunteers, but you just have a lot of other things going on that even though they might be cool because they have YouTube on their phone, like people in their sixties that don't even worry about their phones. Like they have a wisdom of like life beyond the device life on the hustle life beyond that like, and there's something that they can say and speak consistently that other folks might not be able to. Yeah, that's a powerful word. Again from Zach and from Zach and Milt is Zach and Ray. Thanks. Thank you. Uh, for that cause there, there is something to be said and to be offered and that's one of the things that I think helps a little bit and this is going to be hard for some folks to hear, but it shaved some of the cool off, right? Like if you're just trying to shave it down to be as sleek as possible, you're going to miss out on some of the things that make it as rich as it possibly could be. And so
Speaker 4:tweet that you need to tweet what yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh no, I, I'm not here. I'm here for the conference that you love somebody else to be. But thank you for bringing that point up because again, that's, that's something that I think that we lose in the efforts to be as far reaching as possible. And so, uh, but I want to press a little bit further cause this is one of the things that I think carries from the first century to now is that that language, so if someone's really caught up in the excitement of discipleship, they're probably not too far off from saying the phrase disciples that make disciples. And so I would love to hear what your commentary on that phrase is. Cause again, I hear for it Heather. But if we're struggling to make disciples, I got to believe it's probably also pretty difficult to be disciples that make disciples. And we're not always sure about our own discipleship.
Speaker 4:Sure. That's great. That's a great question. Um, in fact, so the Hebrew word for disciple is Talmud. Uh, the, the plural that is telling Dean, and it carries with it this understanding that I'm a pupil or a learner. So where there was this understanding of in the first century when it came to rabbis and disciples, the disciple had this overwhelming passion. This is all overwhelming desire to become just like their rabbi in every way possible. And the rabbi was a master teacher of God's word. They were somebody who, you know, had memorized the entire old Testament. They were somebody who was a master at understanding how to interpret it so that people would know, how can I apply this to my life? Right? And so when it comes to discipleship, when it comes to disciples making disciples, I really think it's a matter of are we creating learners who become teachers, who make learners, who become teachers, who help people become, you know what I mean? Like it's just this, Hey, it's really simple. Am I sitting down and teaching people God's word and how to apply it to their life? And then am I taking them out and giving them opportunity? Did do so and then are they then becoming so passionate about the word of God that they now are going to go teach somebody about it and they're going to go right? Like it's this really, it's quite simple. It's teachers helping people learn how to become a teacher themselves and therefore replicating themselves over and over into Oregon.
Speaker 3:Hmm. Yeah. Because the ask was there and the commitment was to, and Heather, I'm thankful for you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing, friend. Is there anything else before we wrap up today that you would not want us to miss? Um, both about obviously the book links in the, in the show notes below to check out and read more a helpful read. I think for any youth pastor that's asking the questions related to what does it mean to be a discipler that makes disciples or is raising up adult leaders that would hopefully do the same. Um, but any, any, any things that effort in our writing it that you would want to add, adjust, qualify or further encourage?
Speaker 4:You know, I would encourage, um, the youth workers who this book, um, you know, to really kind of take a step back, uh, as they read through it and to just really process through some of these things that's offered. Um, you know, I don't think this book is like going to like turn the world upside down and change everybody's ministry and make it the best possible ever. But take one or two things that you might read and started applying it to your life. And one of those things that I would challenge you to workers is chapter six. I write about the Sabbath and the, the heart of the Sabbath and this need for[inaudible] kind of getting away from just this overcharged life of busy-ness and go, go, go, go, go. And this performance mentality and just learning how to be a child of God and learning how to simply just kind of just be present with Jesus. And I think we need more of that in the youth ministry community is just youth workers who are present with Jesus because that then creates within us of this safe place for students to land because we're at risk with the father. And so, um, yeah, I just want to encourage youth workers. She just find that rest in Jesus and to let him be their greatest delight because he's the true source that we're really pointing students to at the end of the day. So yeah, so that, and then if others want to connect with me more, they can find me. Uh, there's, I have first century youth ministry that come, but I just, I grew up on the internet. I have my Facebook author page, they can find Heather Kiros author page is how it's listed on Facebook. And then also, um, for all you youth ministry booster listeners out there, I'm in the process of getting a discount code for y'all to pick up the book on the youth cartels website. So that would be probably in the show notes or you can find it on my Facebook page. Um, I also have a YouTube channel that I just created where I'm putting out these three minute videos that just kind of unpack a little bit more of these first century learnings that I've been learning and how we can apply them to our youth ministry.
Speaker 2:Love it. Well, Heather, thank you so much for your time today again to check it out first, you see ministry in the first century. Uh, it's an exciting read that I think is helpful to fill in some of the ancient truths that are applicable for today. Thanks heaven. Thanks. There you go. That's our interview with Heather Key Rose, a new author, new mom and new insights for you from the first century to doing youth ministry today. If you enjoyed it, pick up the book, check it out. Drop Heather. Align either on the socials or the connection places that we like to connect online. And while you're there, subscribe, rate review. We'd love to hear from you on the externship booster podcast, what you like, what you want more of, and how we can best serve you. So thank you for listening and wherever you're serving today, we are blessed that you listened to us and we hope that you are blessed in the ways in which this has encouraged you to lead out in your youth ministry and church settings with you.
Speaker 5:[inaudible].
