Small Groups for a Doomscrolling Generation | Why Students Don't Talk Anymore

Student ministry has always adapted to changing culture.

The message never changes.

Sometimes the methods need to.

In this episode, Zac Workun and Chad Higgins ask an important question:

Today's students aren't disengaged...they're simply communicating the way they've been formed to communicate.

From AIM away messages and Facebook walls to Snapchat, group chats, Twitch streams, and endless scrolling, every generation learns differently because every generation communicates differently. That reality matters when we gather students into circles and ask them to process the deepest questions of life in real time.

Rather than criticizing technology, Zac and Chad explore what youth pastors can learn from it.

You'll hear practical ideas for creating healthier discussions, reducing unnecessary social pressure, helping students observe Scripture before performing knowledge, and equipping small group leaders to become guides instead of answer dispensers.

The conversation also explores why Twitch and creator culture may actually reveal something hopeful: students still want to learn—they often learn first by watching trusted people model wisdom before stepping into it themselves. That's why one of the greatest opportunities in youth ministry today is inviting students to move beyond consuming content toward creating, teaching, serving, and leading within the life of the church.

If you're leading teenagers today, this episode will help you think more carefully about attention, communication, discipleship, and what faithful ministry looks like in a digital age.

Episode Highlights

• Why today's communication habits matter for discipleship
• The hidden social pressure inside traditional small groups
• Asynchronous communication and why students hesitate to answer
• Practical discussion techniques that increase participation
• Observation-first Bible study
• Why co-leaders model wisdom better than lectures
• What streamer culture teaches us about learning
• Developing student leaders instead of passive spectators

Discussion Questions

• How has technology changed the way your students communicate?
• What parts of your small group environment create unnecessary pressure?
• How could you help students ask better questions instead of only giving answers?
• Where could students move from observing ministry to actually leading it?

If this episode encouraged you, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another youth pastor or volunteer. Every share helps more ministry leaders find practical, Gospel-centered encouragement for leading the next generation.

Transcript

Garage Catch-Up And Big Energy

Zac Workun 0:06

Hey, and we're back with another episode of the Youth. Booster Podcast Hangout in the Garage again with the one only chat Higgins. Hello, hello, hello. Okay, I need I need to tell because it's been a few weeks since. Um I've been I've been um outed or exposed. Um Don Donnie. Do you want to call HR? No, no, he they were all there for it. Um so we recorded those episodes at SBC. People check them out, they're on the backlog from a few weeks ago. But Donnie, beloved Donnie, we love you, Donnie. He's the best. Donnie is the best. He for a lot of our other lobby podcasts, if we're ever in studio, Donnie's the man behind the cam making it happen. Um I guess before each of the guests I had, he'd lean over and be like, Zach's energy is about to go to 11. And that was that was Donnie's way of just because I mean, like, you know, I try to bring big energy to the podcast or whatever, but I guess for some of our guests, he lean over and be like, Okay, Zach's about to get real excited. So just don't don't get don't get freaked out. I like that he's giving warnings to folks. Yeah, so just uh every time I do that, which I don't even know when that started, but that was just one of those that like it was like hit it big. I think I was watching a lot of like Snap Get Excited videos or whatever.

Chad Higgins 1:23

Well, most people don't know when we first started doing podcasts. Yeah, your son was just born.

Zac Workun 1:29

Yes. There were oldest son was just born.

Speaker 1:32

There were a few of those episodes that I remember because he's like asleep in the like the next room.

Speaker 1 1:38

He could see him across, you can see him across the way. He's like in the porter crib while we're recording in the the at the time, the living room.

Chad Higgins 1:44

There were a few of those episodes that I can tell you you wouldn't get too loud because we're like, we can't wake, you know.

Speaker 1 1:49

Yeah, if we wake Isaiah up, this is over. The game's over. The game's over. We have to restart in another time. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:55

You have to take your ball and go home. It's like playing in the street, and they're like, Car, car.

Speaker 1 2:00

Yeah. He starts crying, and I'm like, well, wrap it up. I guess it's a one episode day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's good. Um that isn't really fun to talk about with just folks. Um, we have some really fun episodes of recording at the end of this summer that will come out at the first of next year. And it's folks that have started podcasting in the last couple years, and just how much that's changed. Like, that's one of the things that like the technology that has changed um both how we do and us in the last I mean, dude, 11 years ago is a long time. Like, that's one of the things that I mean, just the way we talk about you know what we do with some of these things, if we forget how much has happened inside of those like windows of time. And so anyway, just the amount of like my favorite story to tell. I got to be interviewed for another thing, and just talking about how like when you and I started this, it worked because we had the idea. And when you had the idea, I was like, Well, I actually have all that recording stuff because I was in some bands back in college. Like it was this was not like, oh, we should just do it. Because like today, if two guys want to start a podcast, you just do it, but it was made possible because I was like, Oh, I have recording set up for when I was in bands in college, and so it was those other side hustles that enabled the next thing, and so just the

Early Social Media And AIM Culture

Speaker 1 3:20

way it's all changing. So, okay. Today we're gonna talk about a few things uh related to changing technology, uh, how it's affected us, our time, our attention. And so we can't talk about time and attention without talking about social media. So, Chad Higgins, I want people to know from you put us in the time capsule, let's unearth it a little bit. What what was your first social media account? Like what was the platform? What was it? How did you use it? Like, if it's Facebook, that's fine, but there was probably some other ones along the way, like the older the better. So a little bit because we were in the generation that like there wasn't and then there was.

Speaker 3:58

A little bit of this is like, what do you consider social media? So, like, would you consider like how our generation was using like aim messenger or like ICQ back in the day?

Speaker 1 4:14

I I think I think those are good messaging services. I would say social.

Speaker 4:19

Because as for students, if you remember, yeah, while AIM was like which for our younger generation, you're saying aim, they don't know what they don't know what an aim is.

Speaker 1 4:28

That's a miss, brother.

Speaker 4:30

What did AIM stand for?

Speaker 1 4:32

AOL Instant Messenger. It was AOL Instant Messenger. So it was the the DMs, it was the IMs of the DMs that were on your desktop. And so it was you being able to chat for free, text chat for free, across a friends list. So pre pretty much pre-Snapchat.

Speaker 4:48

Right. But but if you remember, there were ways that students were utilizing AIM almost social media-esque because you could leave those away messages. And so I can remember you sit there and you'd hear that like opening of the door, right? And then, but then you would see like real passive aggressive, like Stacey is like not on because my horrible boyfriend broke up with me, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 5:13

And so, like, flag football over girls. Uh single playing Halo 2.

Speaker 5:21

But fast forward a little bit, so I dabbled my toe a little bit into Zanga. Yeah, starting like some blog kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 5:31

Did you ever friendster? Friendster's gotta be one of the first ones.

Speaker 5:35

I don't remember friendster.

Speaker 1 5:37

Okay. Um involved in any of the bulletin boards about various video games or tradecraft or magic hobbies?

Speaker 5:43

So I will say, first, really obvious though, social media, and this is a proud moment for myself. Yeah. Because you know, normally on well, I would say that I am on technology, I don't feel like I'm an early adopter. Like I'm not gonna be the first one to get like the newest Apple Watch.

Speaker 2 6:05

Yeah.

Speaker 6:06

But there is something I I always kind of have feelers out for like new-esque things.

Speaker 2 6:13

Okay.

Speaker 6:14

So in spring of 2004, uh, I was a freshman at the University of Oklahoma.

Speaker 1 6:22

Yeah.

Speaker 6:23

Um, OU was one of the like first a hundred or fifty.

Speaker 1 6:29

Yeah.

Speaker 6:29

Uh social. At that time, you had to have a university email address to

Facebook Pokes And Stranger Arguments

Speaker 6:35

get on Facebook.

Speaker 1 6:36

Yeah, the.edu was the gatekeeper. That's right. That's right.

Speaker 6:40

Um, I was one of the first 50 students at the University of Oklahoma on Facebook.

Speaker 1 6:47

Just out there poking people?

Speaker 6:49

Well, at that time, it's like, what even is this? Oh my god.

Speaker 1 6:52

Remember when we used to have a poke list? Like it was that was the strangest little feature of early Facebook. It was like that and the wall or some of the earliest things, but the poke feature was just like this, like it was a notification for nothing. It was just like the most ambiguous, like, you've been poked. And so it was like it just like this like, what does it mean? Like, it's obviously attention grabbing, but like, how many days do I have to wait till I poke them back or whatever? It was such a funny, like I remember us trying to social experiment like a physical action into like a digital understanding.

Speaker 7:27

This sounds so archaic now, thinking about it, but I remember something happened when I was on Facebook that was so uncommon, honestly, in the world at that point. I the University of Oklahoma's football team lost to TCU, okay? Which nowadays TCU's football team's strong team, yeah.

Speaker 1 7:50

Yeah.

Speaker 7:51

In 2004, that is not the case.

Speaker 1 7:53

Yeah.

Speaker 7:54

Okay.

Speaker 1 7:54

Quite the upset.

Speaker 7:55

OU loses to TCU. I remember making a comment online. How in the world, you know what I mean, does OU lose to TCU?

Speaker 1 8:05

Freaking frogs, yeah.

Speaker 8:07

At that time, right? Like there was nowhere else where you were gonna make a comment online, at least the places that I was in, because I wasn't like chatroom or blog kind of guy. Um I made that on my own Facebook account, and I remember someone from TCU saw it and started arguing with me online.

Speaker 1 8:31

Okay, yes, yeah.

Speaker 8:32

And that was like this idea that like some stranger was gonna like reach out, talk to me about a comment that I made online felt so unnatural.

Speaker 1 8:44

Yeah.

Speaker 8:44

Nowadays it's like, well, of course the world's gonna see.

Speaker 1 8:47

You asked for that, right, right, right. Like you did that to get that response. I and I and I do think that's some of like the social media reality where we start to slip through the like because like, and maybe that's a little bit of the like AIM versus like a Snapchat is AIM, you kind of had to know everybody. Like France, like you weren't just like, whereas a chat room was just like, let's see who's here, or like a bulletin board, maybe like Marvel Comic Collector or whatever. And like there's like a like an interest that drove some of that. Like a lot of those early ones were social, but there wasn't that media of like you know, the Twitter journalism or the like starting a fight on Facebook. Like that seemed to come like like MySpace literally was like a collection of like your friends that were organized, and it wasn't until like MySpace music where you were like bands were getting discovered, right? Where it was like this, like the discovery feature, or the like you know, someone made a comment that connected people that didn't know each other across this like online town square that really shifted. And so yeah.

Speaker 9:53

I just want you to know. I mean, I don't know if you've been wondering, if we had my space today, oh, I'd put you in my top eight. All right, yeah.

Speaker 1 10:04

I mean, it'd be like seven. Seven on the bubble. That's fine. That's fine.

Speaker 10:08

Dude, putting somebody on the bubble was risky. You knew I like I'm gonna need to take this guy out for lunch.

Speaker 1 10:13

That number eight, because the first three or four slots, you feel like these are family. That's family, that's ride or die. That's like that's like longtime

Why Small Groups Feel Foreign Now

Speaker 1 10:20

girlfriend. But that's seven, that seven or eight spot, like that, that could be anybody. That could that could be, you know, someone that helped you, you know, get to rank 19 in Halo.

Speaker 10:29

I feel like I feel like current generation, there is no way they would do the top eight.

Speaker 1 10:33

Like that is uh Snapchat has best friends, right?

unknown 10:37

I don't know.

Speaker 1 10:37

But I don't think that's our force ranked list. Having a force ranking is wild. Yeah, yeah. Force ranking real people and not just force ranking like celebrities or like Harry Potter houses is wild, wild. But Buzzfeed could never. So uh we want to talk about some of this stuff though in youth ministry, not just the technology that's changed. I do think that we are in a new era of this. And so for folks that know, we've been doing some research on the academic side of stuff. I'm excited to share some of that with you as the year kind of unfolds this year. But I think the ways in which we talk about um how students' attention span, yes, all the goldfish talks that students' attention span is now less than a goldfish. That's like a pretty dramatic presentation on feels it's rude. It's rude. I don't know.

Speaker 11:26

I've got some good goldfish.

Speaker 1 11:29

So some obedient goldfish. Um, but the idea that like we are walking into a world now where what is competing for students' attention is not only in the room, but outside the room. Like that is something that it started being true in 2013, 2015, 2016, as both the proliferation of smartphones and social media went from just being like an expensive thing to an every person thing. But I think in the last few years, the ways in which that has fueled both how people understand and see themselves and their world, but also how they exist moment to moment. Like this is one of the things that we've talked about with our equipping team working with youth ministers across the country, is that small group as a form is like very foreign to a teenager in 2026. The idea of like we're gonna all be in a circle and we're all gonna look at each other and we're all gonna say what we think and feel in real time, like that as a thing, let alone it being about like the supreme being of the universe or the risen, like all these like high stakes conversation, the very form of like, Chad, what do you think about this? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't wanna fight about it. I was gonna like I'll just comment or throw you a like later. Like, this is one of those, like just the idea of how it's all been engineered to just exist differently creates a new reality for us to minister. Like, do you feel that too? Like, is that does it feel like a new era of how to do ministry, or is this just technological residue because we don't understand how it's shaping us yet?

Speaker 13:10

Well, I think I think, especially for us who are older, right? Like if you've been doing ministry for a while, and I think I think we have to be conscious that we are older, yeah, and so we we're looking at student ministry through that lens.

Speaker 1 13:26

Yeah, like a little vintage appeal.

Speaker 13:28

Well, you will often teach the way that you learned. And so we've done I mean, it's not historical by any means, but the vast majority of us, right? We've been doing ministry at least from a teaching aspect the same way, probably for the last 20 years, 20 years, especially if you've been in it for a while, right? It's just like because to even think about the idea that like small groups historically are not this super old concept, right?

Speaker 1 13:59

Right. Um, now I mean less than a hundred years. Like this is it's it's a very much a like late modern invention. Like church was pastor to pew, yeah.

Speaker 14:10

Right. You for a while, but then you start to go back and you start asking, like, well, what is house church model, those kind of things, right? But like I I think as far as a system inside of a program, this idea of small group, yeah, a feature of what we're doing. Correct. But then even to think through that concept of even asking ourselves the question, and I think that this is contextual, because what I would say in this conversation that you and I are having, a lot of this is going to be determined based off of what are the ways that your current school system in your community is teaching.

Speaker 2 14:48

Yeah.

Speaker 14:48

Because if there are still a good amount of classroom-based discussions on learning, then yes, our model of what

Asynchronous Communication Changes Everything

Speaker 15:00

we would probably consider a traditional small group structure in student ministry may not feel as uh I would even use the word combative.

Speaker 2 15:10

Okay. Yeah, right.

Speaker 15:12

Especially if if you have students that are highly involved in social media, yeah, uh, those type of things.

Speaker 1 15:22

Creating, manufacturing, curating content. Like there, there is a different just wheelhouse that they're living in.

Speaker 15:28

Well, you even think about the way like what we were talking about with A AIM. There's a way that you're communicating with your friends that affect the way that you learn in a small group culture.

Speaker 2 15:40

Yeah.

Speaker 15:41

So, case in point, our generation and I think if we look back historically in student ministries, in the 90s, student ministries were very large at that time.

Speaker 1 15:55

Yeah.

Speaker 15:56

Okay.

Speaker 1 15:57

Um, you would have by and large, every youth ministry was probably larger in the 90s than it was today.

Speaker 16:04

Uh yes. Because especially in the South, yeah, right? Where you had there was still pretty solid like families go to church culture.

Speaker 2 16:15

Yeah.

Speaker 16:15

But then on Wednesday nights without cell phones and those types of things, even if you weren't a believer, yeah, and you were just wanting social interaction.

Speaker 1 16:26

That was the social site.

Speaker 16:28

That was the social site.

Speaker 1 16:29

Especially in towns that didn't have malls but had churches. Yeah. It was a necessary social circle.

Speaker 16:34

Well, you would have you would have churches that were a church of 200 on a Sunday morning. It was not uncommon in the South. I knew multiple student ministries in my town that their student ministry on a Wednesday night was probably half the size of their entire congregation on a Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 16:54

Yeah.

Speaker 16:55

If not more. There, I knew I knew of at least two student ministries in town that on Wednesday night there were probably more students in that building than there was on Sunday morning in their entire church. Um, and that that wasn't crazy uncommon back then, right? Because students want to hang out, they want to connect, their parents would allow them to go to church.

Speaker 1 17:16

It was a safe enough environment. There was the promise of food and others, and so they would show up.

Speaker 17:21

Um, and so there was that connection being met. Nowadays, there's so many social interactions, or at least in what I would say perceived social interactions online and the ability to connect with students because while they're still having face-to-face conversations at school, you're not picking up a phone calling your best friend talking. Dude, I remember being 13 years old, like making a phone call to my best friend and just laying there, just messing around at the house. Yeah, there were some times where we weren't even talking, it was just on, the phone was just on while we were doing other things. And then, you know, you're like three-way calling like nine other people. You had a party line. Yeah. And so like you're just you're talking.

Speaker 2 18:14

Yeah.

Speaker 18:15

And so then this idea of getting in a room and talking felt more natural.

Speaker 2 18:20

Yeah.

Speaker 18:21

Today you've got group text, individual text, and so think about the way that you even communicate. And you've helped me see this a lot. There's this, there's this response on your own time.

Speaker 1 18:33

Yeah. The ace the asynchronous is one of the things, the hallmarks that we talk about is that all of our you know, daily use communication is decided when I'm ready. Like it, it's whether it's email, messages, likes, hearts, replies, it it isn't instantaneous or spontaneous, it's asynchronous.

Speaker 18:51

Yeah. So imagine that the natural communication now. Let's take a I don't know, small group style question.

Speaker 2 19:00

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 19:02

That we want them to immediately answer in the room. Real time.

Speaker 2 19:07

Yeah.

Speaker 19:08

Let's imagine, and they probably never would ask this style of question over text, but let's assume they did. I'm gonna pick up my phone, Zach Workins, my best friend, and I'm gonna text him. How do you know that God is real? You're not gonna, as a student, immediately text that part it.

unknown 19:30

Right.

Speaker 19:31

No, you're gonna, it's gonna go.

Speaker 1 19:34

It's just gonna sit there, gonna leave it on red.

Speaker 19:36

There's just little dots, just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Until you're either ready to answer that question, you've probab you've probably AI'd it if you're a student of going, how do I know the guy?

Speaker 1 19:46

Well, I've texted somebody else my response to see if they think it's worthy to put in the group text. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 19:52

All of those type of things. And so the way that they even communicate with their best friends has changed.

Speaker 1 20:00

Yeah. And if it's in a group text, I'm gonna put a few memes in there just to get a vibe check on the room before we actually have a deep discussion. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 20:08

And so I think I think that that's an interesting thing.

Speaker 1 20:10

I think it's something for us to learn, I think, as ministers, when we start to think about

Practical Fixes For Real Discussion

Speaker 1 20:15

okay, then if if they are slower to their responses, or that's just the way which they've been trained communication, like that's their communication theory, then I think we've not stood in small groups, but start meeting differently. Sure. Like, even to the point that you're sharing, like, like, is there a way in a group that's smaller than their small group where they can practice their answer? Like, how do they turn? It's the smallest thing, but instead of being like in front of a group of 10, what do you think? Could you have a one-on-one sidebar with somebody else in the group? And then you guys that's my favorite thing to do when I get to speak to youth groups is to have them talk to each other, and then the other person talks for them. So it's always like, share a hobby that you're into. Okay, now you share for the other person what they shared because it takes the pressure off of like Chad loves chess, like that. Because if you're like, I love chess, well, now that feels like a target, but I'm like, this guy says he loves chess, it feels like it's just a little bit of that diffusing some of the pressure answers that we still like want to have the conversations, but we're just not skilled or trained in the way of doing it.

Speaker 21:21

Well, I I mean I would say that I think that the low-hanging fruit to me feels like if you're leading a small group discussion at this point and you don't have like scratch pieces of paper on the table for them to like give them a moment to like flush out their answer just by themselves before they like read it or share it, like that feels it feels way too instantaneous to be asking questions without giving people a little bit more time. Just because uh you just naturally have that today.

Speaker 1 21:56

Like so, one of the things so my wife Karen is an educator. One of the best I know, the way that she flips it is the Jeopardy model where people get to ask questions. So it's in the form of a question instead of an answer. And so if it's a passage that talks about God's love, instead of answering the question, How do you know that God is real? How does God love us? We get to ask things that we notice in the passage. What are the things that are like? So instead of being like, How do I, how do I trust that God provides? It's it's looking for, well, I thought it was really interesting that he took a you know a little kid's lunch and fed everybody. How do you think he did that? So it becomes they get to be the ones that are playing the what about game by asking questions instead of playing the sage game of like, do they have an answer? Because I mean, no offense, if you're 40 and they're 14, like they probably don't have the answer. And so if you're setting them up, like what do you think the answer is, they know if it feels like a trap. Like if this whole thing is like you're older, you're wiser, you're more prepared, you're trying to catch me. So I'm gonna try to like juke either with humor or with silence.

Speaker 23:05

Well, that's really good too, because if you think about it, especially if you're older generation, yeah, you maybe are a little bit more skilled of answering questions asked to you. Yeah, I think that I think that is something to consider of like, do we set these up to where they're asking questions, then they're learning through you being able not dominating the conversation, but being able to answer.

Speaker 2 23:28

Yeah.

Speaker 23:28

Right? Because I think a lot of times if, well, rewind even 10 to 15 years ago, the way that I would have trained a small group leader in that moment was if a question gets asked to you, re-ask it in the way that the the room can answer. I don't know that I would train that way anymore. Do my small group leaders, it probably would be more. I want you to teach them how to find that answer at that point. If they're asking that question, then what we want to do is help them understand the tools that are trusted in finding informational answers. And I think I think a lot of the role now as small group leader, because let's let's face it, students have all the information that they could ever need now. What they don't have is wisdom and discernment to know if that information is correct.

Speaker 2 24:31

Yeah.

Speaker 24:32

Um, or what I would really say that we still have to have is the wisdom of how to use that information.

Speaker 1 24:40

That's right.

Speaker 24:40

To be able to help them see, like, hey, that's a great question. Here's how we know that that question is true.

Speaker 1 24:49

Here's an even better question that I would want to make sure that we're also thinking about. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 24:53

And here's how I apply that to my life.

Speaker 1 24:56

Yes. Well, so that's where one of the things that, like, if you're if you're gonna ask, like, what's something that ministry should be true for moving forward? Before it was probably true because of safety, but now I think it's true for best practice, the power of a co-leader, having two adults in the room that can have the conversation in front of students to watch how it works. Like, this is my response to like an algorithmic age where everybody's like, nobody's shopping

Twitch Learning And Watching To Grow

Speaker 1 25:25

anymore. Products are just fed to you based on your other interests. Where your students are in the room, the two adults having a wise conversation about it is the algorithmic learning for students that are watching how this plays out.

Speaker 25:39

That's really interesting. And okay, so I'm gonna throw something at you. You and I have never talked about this, so sorry. Normally we talk about stuff off, but it made me think of this. If I'm thinking about all the ways that students are learning in this world and how it's different, yeah. Um, one of the things that you and I have been really, I think, interested in and have watched for the last year is the like Twitch culture.

Speaker 2 26:04

Yeah.

Speaker 26:04

Yeah. Of you know, you're watching somebody play a video game. Yeah, you're not playing streamer entertainment, yeah. Streamer entertainment is a good thing.

Speaker 1 26:11

They they want to watch more than just play their favorite game, they want to watch somebody else play their favorite game for them.

Speaker 26:17

Well, because you learn how to play the game here.

Speaker 1 26:19

Yeah.

Speaker 26:20

Um, most people that are watching somebody play Fortnite or Call of Duty or whatever, League of Legends, you're also playing it at some level. You probably don't play it as high as they do, but you're learning what the best weapons are, where the best rotations are.

Speaker 1 26:33

Every month, my boys want to know what the new meta is for Beyblades and Brawl Stars. So we have a couple guys that will release little videos that will give a meta ranking of this is who you should be using.

Speaker 26:42

So that's interesting to me to think about that culture now. Yeah. So if what you said, having co-leaders that are talking about dude, 15 years ago, if you walked into one of your Sunday school classes and your co-leaders are just talking to each other, you'd be like, guys, you guys are messing it up. That's not working. We are breaking up this union. But I could see, because back then, right, it was like you want to get every kid in the room talking at some level. Yeah, there's probably some kids that they are going to learn solely by watching observing, yeah, and they love that, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 27:19

Especially if he gets like a little spirited or a little a little excited, or like Rod tells Tim, I don't think that's right. Oh, oh yeah. Oh, okay. Like and subscribe.

Speaker 27:30

Tim's gonna hit Rod. They're like, where do I give jewels at?

Speaker 1 27:36

Right, right, right. Um the slips of paper. They get to leave little, yeah.

Speaker 27:40

So that's man, so I I'm just trying to think through like how do you how do you encourage your small group leaders in that? Because maybe for that kid who is not distracting but really zoned in and listening, yeah, like that maybe that is really helpful for them. I think where it's useful though, as a really and and this is what I would still encourage that leader, and I think that this has been true for years, and I I hope and pray that it still is, because you do have students and you have we've we've had students for years, yeah, that are just quiet. Yeah, but you know they're taking in energy.

Speaker 2 28:17

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 28:19

I loved that walk from like the student building to the auditorium, worship center, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of like coming along, like Luke, you know, uh, and being like, Hey, what'd you think of that? Just one-on-one, uh that always felt like they got to really engage in that way.

Speaker 1 28:39

So it's funny you mentioned that. So one of my friends, uh fellow dad, who's trying to be faithful and do. So we both are serving in the J High Ministries at our churches. Uh at his church, the J High Ministry is like just a couple girls and a handful of boys. And so for the four boys in their little J High ministry on Sunday mornings, they walk the gym. They just go on a like a like a learning walk and they talk and like have the scripture open, but their body's just kind of moving. If it's a basketball to pick up, they'll throw it and they'll kind of walk around. But just the idea that like it's just that like on the walk, this is how we're learning, this is how we're going. Um, because for him, like it it probably looks like Jesus and the disciples, of them just kind of pressed up behind

Classroom Pods And Countercultural Quiet

Speaker 1 29:20

him and like, you know, them kind of listening to waiting to hear, like, oh, that was interesting. Or, you know, one kid's probably more engaged than the others. But man, the idea that like that circle up time where we all like look at each other in the eye is not wrong, but it is such a I think we have to name it as like we are teaching them a different way to behave, and we're teaching them things they may not know. That's that's a lot. Like when you have like, it's like not only are we eating at a new restaurant, but they've taken away the utensils, like that's a jarring experience. And I think to be like very like aware of how jarring that can be for students. Um, and again, you said it right. If you haven't made a visit or an inspection or a phone call to middle school and high school classrooms in your school districts, see how they're organized. Sometimes they're in little pods of four. And so if all the desks are in pods of four, but their small group is 12 people, that's three times the audience. That that lands different, even though you're like, Oh, it's not that big of a deal. It is a big deal if you're always talking to one person or three people and your small group is 15 people, and they're like, All right, Jeremy, what do you think? Oh, I'm not gonna answer in front of everybody. That's crazy. And so I think that's just some of the things we had to think through that are really, really important.

Speaker 30:40

It's just fascinating to me to really think through like how culture shapes the way that and it shouldn't be surprising, but like the way that we teach and the way that we learn, like, especially when we just think about how how are they communicating on the most natural level for them.

Speaker 2 30:59

Yeah.

Speaker 31:00

Um I mean, looking back, to be very honest, I know that we did certain, you know, our student ministers did certain what, you know, taught in certain ways that they did, but like there probably were some ways to be innovative back then that they just weren't thinking about or in that students were naturally starting to gravitate towards, right?

Speaker 1 31:26

Like well, so one of the things that I'll brag on the youth ministry that I grew up in is he was really good about teaching in seasons. Because at the time that was always like, you know, TV shows were getting released, and it was like the early age of like reality TV and Survivor and other things. And so the idea that like something might happen at the end of this teaching. Like there was always like some team stuff, throwing towards the team. Yeah, like it was like it was going somewhere and then it was gonna end. Like this is like whether that was like a competition or a series, that the idea, like after eight weeks, who knows? You know, it's one of those like that was like, oh, there's an intrigue to it. And so I just think about not that we're changing what scripture says, but I think the pedagogical concerns of how our kids learning needs to be considered. This is not that we're throwing out what we could or should be doing, but I think calibrating in the way well, it's one of the things that we've shared that if the world is really noisy and busy, one of the best gifts you might be able to give is a little bit of quiet. Yeah, which feels crazy counter to all the things in the 90s that were like pump up the jams, the volume, if you can make it more like Disney and MTV, the better, because this is like we're gonna Christianize those things for this. But for the counterculture now, maybe man,

Turn Students Into Creators Not Spectators

Speaker 1 32:45

after the sermon before the next song, that pad or that loop kind of went on for 45, 60 seconds, and it wasn't a snappy transition. It was there was just a little, you know, a piece.

Speaker 32:58

There's probably an element to this that I zach, I'd love us to really kind of push into and think about in the work that we do. There's probably an element to this in Next Gen Ministry of asking the question of how do we truly help them, them meaning the students, create and innovate. Because that is an element that we're seeing in their culture. Yeah. Right? Like in part of the social media, yeah.

Speaker 1 33:28

The promise of it is that it's available to all of you.

Speaker 33:31

Well, and in the same way that you have certain students that are just spectators, yeah. You have other students that their dream now is to become a creator.

Speaker 2 33:42

Yeah.

Speaker 33:42

And so there are probably students in your student ministries that are looking for, okay, how do I live out my faith in a way? And I'm not just talking about how do we help them create on their social media. Yeah. Because I do think that's another question.

Speaker 1 33:56

Yeah. That's a small slice of a bigger pie.

Speaker 34:00

I'm talking about there are probably ways inside of your student ministry for those students to be teacher.

Speaker 2 34:07

Yeah.

Speaker 34:08

Right. Or to engage other students in a in a way that is innovative and thoughtful. When I was 17 years old, feeling a call to ministry, my student minister gave me the opportunity to speak on a Wednesday night.

Speaker 1 34:26

Yeah. Right? And it changed a lot of things for you. It changed a lot of things. Changed a lot of things.

Speaker 34:31

It may not look the same for the student now, but I think inviting them to be not just observers, but participation, like creators, I think that that is part of the way they also communicate.

Speaker 2 34:48

Yeah.

Speaker 34:48

And so I think that that's something for us to explore and really think through how do we help student ministries dream of that, create that space. And I'm probably pretty sure there's probably people already out there allowing students to engage and do in some of the ways.

Speaker 1 35:07

Well, it's like they say if you want to learn something, what's the best way? Try to figure out how to teach it. So if you're doing some of those things, drop a comment on the YouTube below or hit us on the fan mail on the podcast thing. I know it's that weird link that always pops up. You can actually send messages to us to let us know what are some of the ways that you are capturing the attention of students that are living in this age? What are some of the ways that you've seen best practices that they are learning and growing, not just to the end of I heard ideas, but absorbing it and allowing it to challenge and transform their lives. We'd love to hear more, and we'll see you back next time on the Youth Ministry Bootcher Podcast.