Youth Ministry Booster

Youth Ministry Meditations On Fatherhood, Failure, & Freedom w/ Wyatt Pennington

• Youth Ministry Booster • Episode 333

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New Year, New Episode.

Welcome special guest Wyatt Pennington everybody! A new father, emerging and awesome youth ministry leader Wyatt walks us through a practical reframe: treat parents as partners, not an inbox. He details quarterly parent nights that include worship, teaching for adults, prayer, and a genuine response, plus simple series-based resources that turn “What did you learn?” into real conversations around the table. The result: families feel pastored, not processed—and students keep growing after Wednesday night ends.

We also tackle the screen-shaped world teens inhabit. Instead of declaring tech the enemy, Wyatt models a wiser way: analog alarm clocks, physical Bibles that never ping, printed workbooks, and clear boundaries that make space for God. We unpack how algorithms disciple kids with precision and why embodied practices and honest witness can out-form what big tech outspends. Finally, we get granular on communication: preach shorter sermons with one sticky point, yup just one, and lead descriptively by sharing your actual habits and failures, and commit to loving Jesus when no one is watching.

High Points
• new dad lessons on sacrifice and joy
• modeling boundaries students can see
• calling story from midweek to camp
• caught not taught approach to mentoring
• rebalancing ministry toward parents
• practical parent nights with response
• screens, algorithms, and formation
• analog habits that make space for God
• descriptive leadership over prescriptions
• why shorter sermons carry further

Signups for the Youth Ministry Preaching Experience are live. Check it out at lifeway.com/experience come check it out… sign up, let’s hang out in Nashville for three days and talk about what it means to teach, preach, and connect with students in 2026 and beyond


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SPEAKER_00:

Uh snap.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, and we're back with another episode of the Youth Venture Booster Podcast, hanging out in the garage with our buddy Y Pennington, my man. You come on, you're here. I'm here.

SPEAKER_02:

I've made it.

SPEAKER_01:

After many texts and the birth of your first son, welcome, Father Pennington. How are you, buddy?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm glad to be here, man. I'm good. Oh, I got it. Glad to finally make it to the illustrious podcast studio. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, listen, man, the garage heat is on. It's wintertime. We actually talked about doing this almost a year ago. And then we got snowed in of all things. And we're getting this one recorded right before the snow comes in again.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah, we're preparing. Everybody's out buying the toilet paper and you know, ransacking everything.

SPEAKER_01:

To be very truthful, that's where I'm headed after this. I'm gonna go. I was sent on a mission that before the snow hits, I've got to get eggs and I've got to get milk and I've got to get salt for the sidewalk.

unknown:

There you go.

SPEAKER_01:

There you go. Unfortunately, Walmart doesn't sell this all in the same section, but I get it. I get it. Oh man. Well, dude, tell me a little bit, like what's what's new with you? I mean, uh a year ago, uh we were talking about baby on the way, baby is here now. Um, ministry's growing and doing. But for our friends that don't know, now they know White Panton here in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, working at Battle Creek Church as the lead youth minister at the Broken Arrow campus. Uh, dude, uh, how is how is family life? How's fatherhood? What's one thing that fatherhood has uh challenged or changed uh for you in either in life or in ministry?

SPEAKER_06:

Dude, that's a great question. Um, so fatherhood has taught me a lot of things, and so I'm gonna try and be not such a like serious, but also funny. So uh it has taught me one, I have an obsession with my son being an elite football player. Okay. Uh he's massive. He's a 27-pound, 31-inch, 10-month-old. So naturally, I was an offensive lineman, and so everybody that sees him, they're like, future left tackle. I'm like, no. No, he's gonna be a quarterback. Like, I wish a quarterback. He's gonna be the hefty lefty. The next Ben Roples burger is right here.

SPEAKER_01:

Tower of power, young Pennington.

SPEAKER_06:

And so that's like a funny thing, a serious thing that I've learned is just sacrifice, man. Like, that's a big thing that um it is worthy to sacrifice for my son. Sacrifice sleep, sacrifice comfort, sacrifice hobbies, like all the things that you don't think you have to let go of when you become a father. Yeah. Um, it's it's worth doing it for him. So yeah, it's a big thing. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it changes. There's something in it that um it is you you thought you knew in a certain kind of way that you were sacrificing, and you realize that you still had more to give in all the right ways, in all the right ways. So well, how has that impacted ministry? I think we don't talk about that enough, but as a young dad doing ministry, you were ministering before, you're still ministering after. What does that change maybe in the cadence or the rhythm uh or just the approach to a week or a month in ministry?

SPEAKER_06:

And I think that's a really good question. I think before my son was born, I was always on this train of uh what are the things that only I can do? Do those things, everything else give away.

SPEAKER_01:

Just dialing else, dial it in. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and I thought I had that dialed in before my son was born. But then when he was born, now I'm like, there's I have even less time because going to every football game or going to every recital or going to every basketball game isn't as possible as it was before. Like I've got to model boundaries to my students that are like, you come into my game at 10 p.m.

SPEAKER_01:

on Tuesday at 10, let's hang. You're like, no, sorry. I can't.

SPEAKER_06:

I gotta put my son to bed and he just doesn't sleep. Yeah, you know, so that's a big thing that's changed is modeling boundaries for my students, um, and trying to like bring some of that guilt maybe to the Lord of like feeling guilty sometimes that I'm not at every game or every thing that's on my calendar that I could go to.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, but again, kind of knowing, man, it's worth it. It's worth it to be home for my wife, for my son. Yeah. And also the students get to see, man, he might not be at my game, but it's because he's prioritizing his family. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but then communication at home too. Like, hey, I probably need to go to the hometown rivalry football game.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we do, we do have these community events that we have planned to go to, yeah. But it it it you do you feel more over scheduled? Do you feel like that was an area that like uh was a a good kind of growing pain? Y'all do y'all have more weekly like uh uh family business meetings of just like oh my gosh, yes.

SPEAKER_06:

Money, you know, all those things like the Sunday scary, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Come on.

SPEAKER_06:

We've got to be way more intentional now with those types of conversations, especially like thinking about a second kid and thinking about other things that are like, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, um so nice, we'll try this twice.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, so we're definitely more proactive about those conversations, um, having to have more conversations about things you never think about. Like, how do you tell your son no? Yeah, because he doesn't understand, like just saying no, yeah, he don't get it. No, what? He don't know, yeah. Don't touch the dirt in that plant pot and eat it. Like that's what I'm trying to tell you, not just no angrily. And he laughs at no most of the time, anyways. I'm like, no. And he's just giggles.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's because he's the QB1, man. He's got his own plan. He's got his own plans. Well, man, uh, tell me a little bit. I know for a lot of our folks, uh like youth ministry is this like unique and yet shared kind of thing. And I think one of the ways that we come to kind of a shared appreciation is the ways in which like we get to hear each other's call stories. And so, I mean, I've always known you as like youth pastor Wyatt. I know there's like things that were true before. Um, we talk about, you know, whether it's like tonami after school or high school football or um getting married and being a father. There's these different like axes that we've become friends on, but like how did you end up in this role, in this work as a thing that you've been doing now for of several years, right? Is this your number six years? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so why is this the thing that's still the thing? Or how did you get to it?

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, no, that's a really good question. Um I did not grow up in a Christian home, which is kind of interesting being from Tulsa. Yeah because there are not gonna lie, a little rare.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, we have a lot, we got a lot of nominal Christian homes in Tulsa. We don't have a lot of non-Christian homes in Tulsa. Everybody's got at least a little bit of a creaster church on Easter Christmas affiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We weren't even that.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, we didn't go at all.

SPEAKER_01:

Like Christmas Eve, we can eat wherever we want.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, literally, literally. We were doing all kinds of crazy stuff. We were no candlelight service, nothing. Um while I And now you go to five. Yeah, that's right. No, I have many. So while I didn't grow up in the Christian home, as you said, all of my friends were either creasers or went to church regularly. So when I'd stay the night at a friend's house on Saturday, the rule was we gotta go to church on Saturday.

SPEAKER_02:

We're going, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh and as long as they fed me breakfast, I was like, Yeah, dude, I'm going. I don't mind. So um I like the reason why I'm in student ministry now, uh, and I say this to a lot of dream teamers, and that's what we call our volunteers at Battle Creek or Dream Teamers. Uh, when they're intimidated about serving in student ministry, they're like, I don't know if I can relate. They're like, damn, the best thing about student ministry is we all have experience. Yeah. If you were a teenager, yeah, think back to yourself as a teenager.

SPEAKER_01:

Your 17-year-old self. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

What did you need? What did you wish that you had? Be that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and so for me, uh why what drew me into student ministry was the fact that I had a friend that who I would always say the night at his house on a Saturday. I'd go to church with him on Sunday, and there was a day where he said, Hey, you know, as teenagers, we meet on Wednesday nights. Yeah. And I was like, Church in the week? That's right. Is it like Sunday mornings? And he's like, No, there's pop, and it's called Fuse. It's Fuse. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, dude, come on.

SPEAKER_06:

Come on. And so I I would go to Fuse.

SPEAKER_01:

Hold on, real quick, yeah, for an ad break. Um, did you go to multiple churches? Like, did you have other really like humorous, maybe dated mid mid-week names for things?

SPEAKER_06:

I mean, whether it's Fuse was one, Forge was one, uh Ignite, classic.

SPEAKER_01:

We love Ignite, uh, Shockwave. Uh went to a youth group growing up called Shockwave. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06:

It was, I don't know why. We just had to have some sort of name that wasn't.

SPEAKER_01:

This goes back to my theory. I think every 90s youth pastor was a secret pro wrestling fan, and they needed like they they grew up on the area of like Monday Night Raw and Monday Night Nitro, and they're like, We we have to have programming titles for what we do too. And so you know, walk out with all the flames and over the sun. It's just shout out to Pastor Josh here on Wednesday Night Thunder. Bringing the noise, yeah. So exactly like that. So growing up at few, so uh, so did it deliver? Did it have all the pop games and entertainment you were hoping?

SPEAKER_06:

Pop the games, entertainment. It had uh uh members of the opposite sex. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm coming back, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it's like school with no grades.

SPEAKER_06:

Exactly. And so it was it was amazing. Um, but the best thing about it all is as summer approached, I started talking about something called camp.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

And I was like, I love camping.

SPEAKER_01:

I love camping.

SPEAKER_06:

I'll go camping with all these people that I barely know. Uh I had no idea that there was gonna be like Jesus involved at this camp, but it was. And I'm a church camp salvation because of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Like I gave them up to Crisis to be camping. Yeah, yeah. And the very next So you're like camp true believer. Like we've had some folks on the show that are like, if I could change one thing about youth ministry, it would be camp. And I'm looking at you, Higgins.

SPEAKER_02:

But yeah, for you, but for Wyatt.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, team Wyatt, team camp.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah. They did change my life. And the very next year, they did a call to ministry response at camp. So I went back year two, um, and they did a call to ministry response. And before I knew it, I found myself standing. And I was like, why am I standing right now? I don't even know what ministry is, but what I did know is that I needed to stand up.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And it's that was kind of the moment for me that whatever this is that God is doing with teenagers, I want to be a part of that. Then it was years of me running away from God, and you know, we briefly talked about football, but like that kind of became my God throughout high school, and I ended up playing college football for a little bit, and it was when I moved far away from home to play football that the Lord kind of recaptured my heart. And that was the time frame I began to serve out of ministry. I was like, okay, now that I feel like I'm going on with Jesus, yeah, I need to do something with it. Yeah. And so I started serving at this church in Conroe, Texas, and I was like, I'm 19 years old, so what's the most relevant thing in my life? I was just a high schooler. I'm gonna serve in student ministry. Yeah. And it was that student pastor there that was like affirming that call to ministry in me as I was serving there and connecting with high schoolers and like radically changed my life. Yeah. Um, and God had a funny way of doing things because that student pastor that was there ended up being a student pastor at Battle Creek Church where I'm at now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when I I ended up leaving college football, I uh finished my school here in Tulsa at ORU. I studied ministry and theology. And when I graduated, he was who I called.

SPEAKER_01:

He was there waiting and he's like, so that's the that's the beautiful legacy of like what shepherding can look like, though. It doesn't always end up that way, but there are those moments where it's like, this is what shepherding can be, this is like connecting the dots, connecting the links from like the willingness and the call into the thing that became. And so okay, man.

SPEAKER_06:

And here's what it never was, Zach. It was never all right, why we're gonna sit down for an hour and we're gonna go through the five dysfunctions of a team. Or we're going to I'm gonna run a diagnostic of your personality profile. Yeah, I'm gonna give you intentional coaching.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh, it was my buddy Jay Wynn who was trying to teach me how to juggle as we were moving pool tables and moving basketball hoops, and straightening chairs and picking up trash, and I just wanted to be with him.

SPEAKER_01:

And it was in that like camaraderie that I Morse caught than taught, I've I've heard said it's uh say it again because it's true, it's true. Yeah, more's caught than taught.

SPEAKER_06:

And so I was just catching everything he was doing and saying, and I wanted to be like him.

SPEAKER_04:

So come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, man, we are excited to have you here. We've got a couple other folks that are coming through the next few weeks talking about um in the first five, seven years of ministry, um, what they're learning, what they're doing. I think there's a lot of times um there is this. I mean, you kind of basically started right before the COVID wave of stuff in a lot of ways. And so there are some things that we're all learning or relearning. Um, but I I wanted to just ask you, as someone that works with a lot of students and then works alongside other youth pastors, what are some of the things right now in this season? We're kind of on the burgeoning of a new year, maybe things that have been planned or that you are planning. Where is ministry overemphasizing that they shouldn't? And what are we under-emphasizing that we should? I think it's one of those course correctives. Again, we always want to be about a lot of things, but time is scarce uh and time is limited. And as you're learning as a father, like what are some of those things, either for you personally, or maybe even commentary of like, man, we really shifted from this to this, or we really try to reclaim that. Because I think that is a little bit of the tension of like we can't do it all, so what are we actually trying to do with what we can?

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, I think it's a really good question, and I'm gonna say something that might be heretical in student ministry, okay? Um, and so if you need to end up so make the truth play. So here's what I would say. What I think that we might be overemphasizing right now as student pastors, and maybe I can just speak for myself and what I see in our context, it's students.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

That's kind of a bowl. Okay, oh, ooh. Now here's what I'm not saying. I'm not saying students aren't important. I mean, we're student pastors. That's why we're in the world.

SPEAKER_01:

It's kind of a big part of the deal, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

It's kind of like has to be a part of the deal, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Let the farmer not neglect the crop.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes. So I'm not saying stop focusing on students. That's not important. But what I am saying is I think what I notice is we put all of our eggs in the basket of just students, and zero of our eggs in the basket of what we underemphasize, which is parents. I know this is you know a passion for you. It's something that we've talked about many times. But what I feel resting heavy upon me is parent ministry. I mean, that is a massive portion of how to even reach a student, how to help a student, well, how we would say advance in their journey with Christ. I need to equip the parent. I mean, how many parents, honestly, is like how many parents are spiritually intimidated by their kid? Because they come home talking about, you know, hopefully we just preach this fire sermon on a Wednesday night. They're coming home talking about, you know, some crazy thing that they just learned. Yeah. And the parents, like, I have no idea what that is. I'm afraid to ask. Yeah. Because what if my student asks a question I don't know how to answer?

SPEAKER_01:

And that is it, dude. Like that, and that's one of those things that like it we can get really excited about what's in front of us without seeing about the ways it feeds it. And and in the language of, man, I would use language of intimidation of like, man, I don't know if I know enough to answer all these questions. Uh, I would, I would offer even like a layer of insecurity. Not that like, I mean, especially for the folks, the parents, the families that are coming in a part of church stuff, like they see the value. Like, you don't have to convince them of the value their kids already there, yeah, but the ways in which they function inside of it. And I think that's something that like we have to ironically from inside the machine help speak outside of what's going on, lest we be the ones that just keep spinning the wheel of what we're doing week after week and feel frustrated. And I mean, you said it, you said it, you said it plain, but you said it truthful. Like sometimes student ministry can be so obsessed with students uh that we miss the ministry. I think it's I think it's real. I think it's real.

SPEAKER_06:

And here's the thing like some of the stuff that we're doing, like we get such a limited time with students during the week on Wednesdays, and if you do, you know, something on Sundays for your student ministry, like that's really all we get. But parents are the primary disciple of the home, which is like a cliche that we've said a thousand times, but that's true. Yeah, like it's a cliche because it's true. Um, and so what are we doing to equip them? Like whenever we're writing a sermon series, are we writing with that series parent resources? Yeah, like, hey, here's the sermon I preached.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, here's questions that can be had around the dinner table when you're like, what did you learn? And their teenager says, Oh, Jesus, yeah, you know, okay, well, I know Pastor Wyatt said this.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh, come over top, over top, over top, over top, over top layer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so there's things like that that I think are widely valuable. I've taken an inventory of myself as well of man, how many parents know who I am outside of the parents that serve in my ministry? Like just a general parent of someone outside of seeing my name on an email, you know, from Wyatt of Battle Creek Church, do they know who I am?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And a part of my story with my parents is like they're still not believers. And the only time that student ministry that I gave my life to Christ in and surgery to it called a ministry, the only time they reached out to my parents was hey, you still have a camp balance that needs to be here. Yeah, yeah. Don't forget to turn the form in. How how often do we do that to our parents where it's just transactional interactions? Yeah. And so what we're trying to do is shift our ministry programming that's still very focused on reaching students, uh, forming students, developing students, but including parents in that process. And so, like once a quarter, we're doing like a parent night, yeah, which is not a new thing. I'm not reinventing the wheel.

SPEAKER_01:

But you're committed to it and not everybody is committed to the time of the city.

SPEAKER_06:

It's gonna become a rhythm, it's gonna become a thing that people expect. Yeah. And it's not gonna be just a parent camp meeting where let's go over all the rules of camp or let's go all over all the rules of our D now. Yeah. It's gonna be a message with worship that's prepared for them with the spiritual response at the end where parents can come forward and like surrender things. And we've got people in there that are laying hands on parents and praying over them. They're gonna walk away change, just like the students are. Yeah, they're gonna trust, like man, my kids are getting something good on the battle creek.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and and to consider the parents and their own spiritual health. And I think, I mean, you you you named it, like it's this is not just they don't need more information. Like that's uh the the frustration that a lot of our youth ministry friends feel because they're trying to do the good work of communicating and a hundred percent send the updates, craft the newsletter, have the bulletin board put together, assembled, whatever. But like that's not the the end of it, like the the the the hope of it in the same way that the youth ministry isn't just we had things that were going on, was the right kind of things that actually nurtured and fed. And I think that's um it's it's hard to know. So for my my friends that are listening that maybe aren't parents already, it's hard to know some of that, but just how limited time it is when you become a parent, uh, and then how ironically, also how hungry you get for things that feed and nurture you, because you're always either whether it's through work or family pouring out, um, it's a it's a necessary shift. One of the things that Chad and I talked about is like so much of youth ministry kind of happens in waves or levels, and that first move often is to go from just seeing my role as minister to students to minister of students, like it's the camp counselor turn camp director, right? Like, you know, a camp, like I love these kids, summer camp's great, but to carry the camp analogy, like the director is the one that's like thinking about all the pieces, but then also the stakeholder of like what are the things that actually get kids here, and that's the family units that they go home to. Yeah, and that plays out week after week after week, but that's that's part of who we are and what it's about. So I mean, come on. We love we love an advocate for camp. Yeah, so bring it on, bring it on. Uh I I did want to ask you though, a little bit, and this is some of the things that we've just had is like sidebar conversations, uh, just in the way that we text and talk to each other. We're we're living in a unique time, and and like, and this is some of the things I'm Interested in your like youngness, like as as as the guy who's aging into 40 gracefully, for my friend that is on the younger side of ministry, and maybe more even like, are you is it fair to call you Gen Z? Are you are you Gen Z in the male technical? Oh my gosh, that makes me makes me the oldest millennial. Well, as the youngest millennial on the planet, uh, who is fully enmeshed in the ways in which like social media and apps, and you probably were born, you had you had a phone before I even thought about having a phone. Um, what are the ways in which you're pastoring now uh considerately thoughtfully for um for teenagers that maybe they're screen obsessed? This is a tension that I think some of us are feeling that some are less obsessed than they used to be, but they're so used to like you know, screens are how we learn at school, screens are how we interact with friends, screens are what we do to occupy our time at home. How is that affecting how you plan, lead, teach, and do in ministry as someone who is like much closer to their age than like I am or other folks?

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah. The sages of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some some of us that are just like, put your pages away, or about to preach.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh man. Uh I think that's such a good question, Zach. And something I think I've wrestled with when it comes to phones and just the digital age that we live in is kind of this duality of it's either good or it's evil.

SPEAKER_04:

Like phones are bad, social media bad, yeah, games, bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And I don't think I'm winning over any student by constantly saying it's bad, it's bad, it's bad, it's bad, it's bad. Um, because the reality is, as you said, it's a part of their life. I mean, they get a Chromebook in every single classroom or a or a little MacBook.

SPEAKER_01:

The limit your screen time, and you're like, when we use it at school all day, you know, or whatever. Exactly. It's a different thing, but it's also a huge part of their life.

SPEAKER_06:

It's a joke that I mean, our church is in a digital fast right now. Okay. And it's a joke that we made, like, oh, I guess I'm fasting from work because all my work is on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, digital fast, no emails for me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm taking a break for 28 days.

SPEAKER_01:

Drop me a memo in my physical inbox.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, send me a letter or something. Yeah. But students are kind of making the same joke. Like, well, I guess I'm not doing school.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and now so many students have the option of just doing online at school. They're not even showing up, they're working, you know, at Taco Bell during the day and doing their school in the evening. And so I think that that's a attention to be managed rather than a problem to be solved.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

The reality is students are gonna be on, they're gonna be involved with digital things, they're gonna be on social media, they're gonna be playing video games. And so I don't think that we should harp that it's like this spawn of Satan evil, but rather teach them proper boundaries, proper rhythms, and proper habits with the digital. What is a tool or a utility with the digital? And then what do you do just for pleasure uh or just for fun or just too numb? And it kind of relates to the parent uh thing with information. Like I know many parents that I've had conversations with that they're struggling with our digital fast because when they're done working and their kids are being crazy, they just want to mind numb, just scroll.

SPEAKER_01:

Just scroll, doom scroll till till sleep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And we all know that once you're done doom scrolling, you never feel better.

SPEAKER_01:

You're like you feel bad, so you keep scrolling to feel better. Oh, yeah. The the the language around uh uh re I think it's I want to say it wrong, and so correct me in the comments, but like reactive attachment or reactive disappointment that some of us because we didn't feel fulfilled in what we did all day, because we were either living distracted or we felt like busy work, we end up like doom scrolling to try to make meaning out of our thing, but then we end up feeling worse so we stay up later, so we don't sleep as long. And it's like there's the crazy cycle of like just because we didn't manage distraction earlier in the day, it like messes with us until like 11 p.m. every night. And like that is uh harrowing for some of us that are like, no man, I'm just kind of you know, just kind of unwinding. And you're like, oh no, like that's that's code for disaster. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

I've told my wife many times, like sometimes it's nice to just turn my brain off.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

But that's not that's not at all what's happening.

SPEAKER_01:

That's not all, no, it's not. We're like just we're like, we're just we're cotton candy flossing our brain because we didn't want to deal with whatever else was going on, and this doesn't, yeah, and it never makes us feel better. Like it's like it literally is the opposite of like when Karen and I like like I'll go to the gym in the morning, she'll go in the afternoons, and like on the days it's really hard, it's like the the the line is always it was hard today. And it was like, but I didn't regret it. Like it's one of those you never there's some things like you never regret it, but there's some of these you're like, oh man, I was on YouTube like for a full hour before dinner, and I feel nothing but regret. And then you ask, like, well, what did you watch? And you're like, I don't even remember. I don't know. It was just there, it was just there, yeah. Maybe clips and some somebody put a bunch of TED clips together that made me feel smart, but then I don't remember any of them.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh yeah. Well, it's like those videos that you see on Instagram or TikTok where it's like a TED talk or like something on top, and then it's like a Minecraft video of like someone jumping across like an course of the fog.

SPEAKER_01:

They get me every time we're gonna get someone's commentary on the thing with the activity and the oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

It's just like before you know it, you've seen so many of those, you're like, I don't remember any of those stories or the TED Talks or nothing. Yeah, it was a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01:

Just a stream of.

SPEAKER_06:

So, but I think that's the heart of kind of what we're talking about, is our students are kind of inundated with a lot of that. Yeah. So what I know to be true is our algorithms are discipling our students, whether we'd like to admit it or not. Like they're billion-dollar organizations quite a particular attention. They have more resources than I do. Yeah, they do. Um, they don't have the God that I do, though. And so, like partnering it with that spiritually, I think we offer something that um the digital cannot. Yeah, however, I think it needs to be married together. And that's been a challenge for me because I'm like, I don't want to be on social media. Um I don't want to be social media. I don't want to be that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, how do I engage with them on social media? The balance for me, and I have to model this for our students, is okay, I have social media so that I can connect with my students.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

But 90% of my time on social media is just is just existing, yeah, yeah. Research, research, yeah. I'm not putting any content or trying to engage with students in that way. Um, so I think it's important like for us to model those boundaries and those rhythms for our students. Um and so, like for every youth pastor that's listening, and this is for myself, honestly, like when I wake up in the morning, yeah, what's the first thing I grab? Is it my phone? Yeah, or is it something else? Yeah, and we make it really hard because my phone is my alarm, my phone is my calendar, my phone is my literally everything is my phone.

SPEAKER_01:

My sleep monitor.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah, literally. And so I make it impossible for myself to not grab my phone in the morning, especially if it's my alarm. Yeah. And so what I've tried to do, and I have a team at Battle Creek of three full-time student pastors, and um, I'm trying to model this for them and so that they model it for the volunteers and their students, but I'm trying to go a little bit more analog.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

Trying to be a Renaissance man, you know, like I have like an analog alarm clock now so my phone can be in another room at night.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And it's okay. I'm not worried about not waking up on time. I just crank the little dial. Yeah. The batteries are in there.

SPEAKER_02:

Let the FM radio come on. Literally, it's it's that simple.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, it just will in the morning, and um, you know, my phone's not even there.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you say Sears on it, Wyatt? Yeah, yeah, it's legendary Sears.

SPEAKER_06:

Montgomery Ward alarm clock. Yeah. Uh-huh. So uh so some things like that, I think for me, modeling that for the team that I lead and then the volunteers that we lead, ultimately that's going to trickle down to the students that we lead.

SPEAKER_01:

How, okay, so I want to ask this, and this is um, and again, it's not a right or wrong answer. It's this is, I think, the tension that you're talking about that we have to manage. How descriptive or prescriptive are you getting in that? Like, are you like is that part of when you teach and illustrate? Are you talking about some of your own personal rhythms to your students? Um, when you're meeting and talking with your staff, are you like, hey guys, here's what I'm trying to set? Or is this like, I think we should try this? Because that's one of the things, you know, even you talked about it a little, so we'll just say it again, like church wide, y'all are kind of committed for the month of January to go like digital detox. Like that's like a that's a very prescriptive, like, hey, this is what we want all of us to do. So how does that show up in like both your your leading of your staff and then also your teaching leading of your students? Like how how like I mean, are you like are there like analog alarm clocks to buy like in the hallway? Like, do you have like the merch, like you have like youth group merch and alarm clock kind of thing?

SPEAKER_06:

We got an alarm clock, we got an oil lantern so people just walk around like and these are screws, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, we've got we've got uh uh uh uh you know Polaroid cameras for camp or whatever. Come on, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I got stone tablets so they can just take their selling pins in the lobby, everybody. We got pins, we got pins and notebooks.

SPEAKER_06:

So I would say what what we've done that's prescriptive is hey, the whole church is doing a fast, including our student ministry and all of our messages this month, yeah, and sermons and Sunday morning content.

SPEAKER_01:

So you like printing out note pages and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Like we're every week, who brought their physical Bible? Who brought their physical journal? If you don't have them, we have that. Um, you know, your your Bible, your physical Bible never gets a notification. Yeah. Which is we like to say, Oh, I have my Bible on my phone. Yeah. Like when Snapchat pops up, they're looking at that, not the Bible. Yep. And so, yeah, we're like encouraging that in everything that we do. We also have like workbooks that we have that kind of accompany the digital detox that we've been offering. But the descriptive, I actually think is more important, to be honest with you. Come on. Um, and one of the things you asked was, like, are you like saying what you're doing in your life? The answer is yes. And like over and abundantly, yes. Uh, I have done both where I've tried to say, Hey, there's I read this article of this guy who does this.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and we'll go through his like leadership principles or his daily habit or rhythm. And my team or students or whoever's like, listened to a podcast the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh, that's really good. That's good. Isn't it neat? Yeah, good good coaching. But whenever I stand in front of my team, I'm like, hey, this is what I'm doing. They're like radically impacted in a way different and deeper way to man, my leader's doing this. Like hey, let's hold each other accountable in this. Um, and so yes, when I'm on stage and I'm teaching, I'm like over and abundantly telling students this is what I am doing. Not as like a brag, but here like I'm talking about the wrestle and how much I suck at it. Like I'm the chief buffoon.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's it's a formal witness, right? Like this is one of those we bear witness. We don't just, you know, give advice, and like some of that shows up in the way in which God's working through you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh, you know, you've heard the phrase you can never lead someone somewhere that you haven't gone yourself. Sure. Once again, a cliche, but it's maybe maybe true.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and that was actually really difficult for me. Like I'm telling students build these habits of reading scripture, spending 10 minutes in silence and just praying without without worship music playing in the background, with like just sit in solitude. Do I do that?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Like, am I just like barking at my students saying, do this, do this, do this? Like, here's this, this, this uh prescriptive thing you can do. If you just do these four things, all of a sudden you're a mature believer. Yeah. Um but am I actually living that? Like, am I actually putting into practice those disciplines and those habits? I mean, we're just reading in in in Matthew, uh, after Jesus heals Peter's mother and uh mother-in-law, the very next thing he does is uh he goes into the wilderness. He rises it says he rises early in the morning and he goes to a desolate pro place to pray and fast, 40 days and 40 nights. I'm not a morning person by any means. I'm naturally a night owl. It's from years of watching Tanami, you know, years of saying up late on YouTube, like let me look up this secret. Orangey roll. Yeah, yeah.

unknown:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06:

So I've had to like discipline my body into submission, as Paul says, like I am forcing myself to get up in the morning because if I want to be like Christ, I need to do what Christ did. And what did he do? He got up early in the morning and he spent time with God.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And so, like, I'm forcibly trying to model doing that in my own life so that when I go to a student and say, here's why it matters, yeah, I'm speaking out of like a personal witness and like my own life experience, not just what I read in a Patrick Linciani book or or whatever else I'm I'm reading.

SPEAKER_01:

So well, and I and I do feel like because I I think there's probably a split in our listenership because there are some folks that comes really naturally too. Um, but I I do because I mean I it it has been a a recent journey for me. There was there was 15 years of ministry where I was like, well, they don't want to know about me, they want to know what they need to know. Yeah. But that's how they know. And I think that's one of the things that makes the youth ministry project about the students important, but also larger than just the students. But it is a way of knowing through through those that they can see and understand. Like scripture can feel too far off, God can feel too big. And it's not that you are the end point, but you may be a translation point, an inflection point of like, you know, here's Wyatt, who not only shared the stories of what it's like to be 17 and understood what to be to be 17, but has the wisdom to speak into, you know, what he wished he knew at that age. So, leader, what you knew at that age, or what you wish you knew, would have known, not just in a knowledge base of like, why wish I had the answer to this question, but like the the life wisdom. I think this is where like like why Proverbs gets included in scripture, right? Like, it's it's why we need the Psalms and the Proverbs and the Prophets. Like, this is not just like we want to know what's true, we want to know what's meaningful, and some of that, like you can't know it 1617, and wisdom would say, like, there are ways to spare you the hurt from having to know it other ways. And so, um, say say just a little more for us, though, because I I think the danger for some folks of sharing too much can feel like that's either setting themselves up for failure or spotlighting themselves too much. So maybe the tension that we're managing between making it about themselves and yet also like what are the ways in which that that return it back or put it back to the students so it's not just like a spotlight on me, but an invitation to them to something more.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. I think it all goes back to what I was saying earlier about that church I was serving at in Texas um when I wasn't doing the five dysfunctions of a team or you know, whatever Enneagram, yeah coaching, a personality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to be with my student pastor and learn how to juggle. Yeah. Like there's this book that I was given a long time ago called Taking People with You. And it's just about taking people alongside of you. They just want to be involved in your life. And what me being with my student pastor and him sharing the rawness of his life, like not just the good, yeah, but the mistakes as well, it showed me that living an upright life and drawing close to Jesus was attainable. It was possible for me, even though I grew up in a house that was far from God, that ridiculed God, that mocked people that followed God, that called them Bible thumpers and all these things. Yeah, like my student pastor showed me that you can rise above that. Like you can push through like what maybe your nuclear family as a kid raised you to be. Like you can be what God wants you to be. Yeah, just pursue him, and you're gonna stumble along the way. But when you fall in the kingdom, you're gonna fall on soft ground. And that was like wildly encouraging for me. And so um there was a time where I I wrestled with this in teaching. Like, I don't want to always be talking about me. Kind of what you said, I want to spotlight myself. I'm not trying to be better. Who am I? Yeah, who am I? I'm not trying to be prideful. And uh, my student director at the time, when I'm wrestling with this with him, I'm like, I just don't want to make it all about me. He said, Well, are you? Like, are is that what you're trying to do? And I was like, No, I'm not. And he goes, Then what do you have to worry about? If you're not trying to make it about you, I think they're gonna pick up on that. Yeah, if you are trying to make it about you, they will pick up on that. Like students are gonna sniff that out. And so that was actually like a really freeing, extremely simple truth for me of I'm not trying to make it about me. What I'm trying to do is highlight what God has done in me. And if that's the heart, I think God can make up for maybe the the other things or the gaps in between so that when a student hears it, the Holy Spirit can give them what they need. Um, so yeah, that's what I'd say. That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, why thank you so much for being with us today. Uh, I love any time that we get to spend together and love watching you grow and learn. Thanks. Uh on the way out, uh, 2026, we've been asking folks uh win, loser, meme. Um, so what is something that you would want to see more youth pastors do in 2026? What would you want them to stop doing? And then what is something that uh if you're projecting the meme of the year, um, what do you got from meme of the year this year? So so you know, if you had guessed six, seven for twenty twenty-five, um, you would have gotten the the gold medal, as it were.

SPEAKER_06:

That would be absolutely crazy if someone guessed uh six seven was the meme.

SPEAKER_01:

Um just some Nostradamus figure that was like in 2025 the numbers will be six and seven. Like, something about those two numbers is just something about those two numbers is creeping up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh I okay. So let me just start with the meme of the year. I would say the meme of the year is going to be something video game based.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06:

And I think that's what I'm going to project in my noise.

SPEAKER_01:

In like a in like a humorous way or in like a significant way. No, just something humorous. Okay. Humorous. Humorous.

SPEAKER_06:

I think that uh this past year I have gamed in my life. Yeah. And I think we've been kind of in a gaming drought of elite games.

SPEAKER_01:

And uh Expedition 33 can't carry us forever.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, it's too French. You know, people were like, okay, connect with this. We what is this? Yeah, yeah. So I think this year there's gonna be something video game-based that people will latch on to and probably go crazy. Okay. Uh, what do I think student pastors should start doing this year?

SPEAKER_01:

Or just like if you're gonna commit to something, if they were like on the fence about something like this, like guys, you have to get this right. Whatever it is, you have to get it right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh commitment to your own spiritual formation. Okay. I think that, and that is seem that seems like probably what every pastor's been saying for 2,000 years.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, commit to your own spiritual formation, like growing up. I don't know if that's true, but yeah, I I I think it I think it could be fresh enough. We're gonna we're gonna take it. We will take that answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's a good one.

SPEAKER_06:

And are you in love with Jesus when no one else is watching?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Is Jesus enough for you when you don't have your perfect desk and you don't have your perfect matcha latte, and you don't have a sermon.

SPEAKER_01:

Would you preach without a with a pub without a pub table?

SPEAKER_06:

Yes. Yes. Or like, are you in the word?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

When it doesn't have to do with what you're teaching on Wednesday night.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Like those Can you read the Bible without imagining how you would preach it?

SPEAKER_02:

Dude, that's actually convincing because there's many oh man, this would be fire in a sermon. I'm like, well.

SPEAKER_01:

So one of my dear friends from seminary um would spend time in scripture. I I I need I need to follow up with him. The the line that he always had is like, everything I read is a sermon. Sometimes I just preach them to myself. And I'm like, okay.

unknown:

Dude.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm like, something. It's like so. Basically, he was like, he was he was fessing that he's got like notebooks of sermons that were only just preached to him, like audience of one kind of thing. Dang. And I'm like, ooh, sir. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm gonna take that, but I'll say you quote.

SPEAKER_01:

No, that's fine. Yeah, you have it. Uh what should we lose though? What should we like what do we toss in? You know, like, hey, like, if they want to, it's fine, but like for you, like like you're you're you're taking your money off this number. Like it, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Long sermons.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh that's what I would say. Okay. Do you have a particular threshold you're thinking of? When is a sh when does a sermon become long?

SPEAKER_06:

So that's everybody probably has their own line. I'm gonna say a number and someone's gonna be like, what did I reach for an hour on Leviticus every night? 75. I'm a feature film every Wednesday. Dude, I think I think when you if you are not trying to land the plane by 25 minutes. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

We're like, Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

I have a student every week. He's my timer because he's falling asleep.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

Like he I love him. Does he sit down front too?

SPEAKER_01:

Does he help you out that way?

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, that's good. I'll see him just falling asleep, and I'm like, crap, I'm going too long. Come on. And he's kind of my barometer. Like, if I can keep that kid away, yeah. If he's in, we're in. Oh, that's good. And uh, yeah, I think when we go beyond that, if we're not trying to land the plane and power of one point, drive at home. Yeah. They're gonna walk away. Wow, that was really good. What'd you learn? I don't know, but it was good.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, so again, this is this is one of the things that we talk about. And so um we'll we'll talk more at the end, but our sign-ups for the experience preaching conference uh are live as of this week for folks to check out. But one of the things that we talk about is um if you can't hold it all in your head to prepare it, how are they gonna hold it to carry it? Right. And I think for a lot of folks that bring like, dude, you know, they'll have like eight pages of notes on their iPad and they're preaching through and it's fire and it's powerful and it's passionate. It's even like well studied and researched. But for your kids, that half of them aren't even taking notes and the other half are trying to keep up, you've given them more than they can carry. And I think that there's a tension there of like, man, you got to prepare, and you but but but what is the thing? Like you like you, this is the like the editorial, like you can't show all your work. Yeah. So, like, what are you gonna not not that it's not important, but in this moment, what's the most important? And I think for a lot of folks, they're like, I mean, we we tease, right? It's it's easier to preach a 40-minute sermon than it is a 20-minute sermon.

SPEAKER_06:

For sure.

SPEAKER_01:

So anybody that's like, I preach long, and I'm like, you took the easy way out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, oh no, oh, it's too hot.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh man, but thank you so much for being with us. Uh why we love you, brother. Uh, and we'll see you guys all back next week when we get to talk more about youth ministry.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh snack.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey gang gang, we were not kidding. We actually have signups for the youth ministry preaching experience. You can check it out at lifeway.com slash experience. If you wanted a practical environment to practice, honey and grow in the ways in which you communicate, teach, and preach teenagers, um, come check it out. We're hanging out with some of the best people that we know in the business, which is you. Uh, we want to learn and grow together. So sign up, let's hang out in Nashville for three days and talk about what it means to teach, preach, and connect with students in 2026 and beyond

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Chad Higgins

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