Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Don't Panic! Setting Better Goals in Youth Ministry
🔥 Feel like you need to throw a last-minute mega event to fix that attendance dip? You’re not alone—but there’s a better way.
This week, Chad and Zac kick things off with a hilarious misheard small group moment 😂 and dive deep into the tension youth pastors feel when numbers start to slip. Instead of chasing hype, we talk about trading panic for purpose, and crafting a longer runway for deeper discipleship.
🎯 Learn how to move from reactive programming to intentional ministry formation. We get honest about what doesn’t work (spoiler: slip‑n‑slides 🛝 aren’t a strategy), and share what does—from simple measurable goals to empowering students and engaging parents.
🔑 What's Inside This Episode:
📉 How to name the seasonal dip without spiraling into panic
🗓 Why a 2–3 month planning runway beats last-minute burnout
📚 Building a scope and sequence that serves 2–7 years of ministry
🧠 Helping students go beyond knowledge to confidence and competence
📊 Measuring success with more than just headcount
👫 How to publish your plan to parents and leaders for real alignment
🚫 Why SWOT analysis usually flatters but doesn’t change much
💛 The soul work behind sustainable strategy
🔁 A practical 12-week focus model that builds student discipleship skills
👀 What if your youth ministry wasn’t about doing more, but about doing what matters—better?
We’re inviting you to shift from reactive busyness to a sustainable rhythm of planning, evaluating, and forming students with purpose. From testimony practice to small group consistency and Scripture engagement, we’re talking practical ways to track real growth 📈.
🎙 Whether you're leading solo or with a team, this episode is packed with real talk, helpful tools, and hope for the road ahead. Let’s build something that lasts.
📌 Subscribe for weekly conversations that boost your ministry leadership with practical wisdom, soul care, and community.
👍 Like, comment, and share this episode if it helped you breathe a little easier about planning the next season!
#YouthMinistry #StudentMinistry
Uh snap.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, and welcome back to another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast where there's a little bit of Zach talking and a little bit of Chad dancing.
SPEAKER_04:What's your go-to? What's your go-to uh Baptist aerobic move?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, roll it up. We're rolling it up. Whoa, we're rolling it, we're rolling it up. What are you rolling up?
SPEAKER_02:Staying it in place. We're just we're it's it's a the it's it's a it's the Baptist move. Um it's the the butcher paper that for the kids' craft where you're rolling it up. We're rolling it up, we're rolling, roll rolling the paper up. We're just rolling the paper up. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Put it, roll it up, roll it up.
SPEAKER_03:What are we doing?
SPEAKER_02:And then put it back on the rack. Put it back on the rack. Boom, back on the rack, boom, back on the rack.
SPEAKER_04:We we need feedback from our audience. What are these dance moves?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, come on now.
SPEAKER_04:What are church tasks that could become translate as good?
SPEAKER_02:That could become dance moves.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, well, I mean the chair stack is pretty good. The chair stack, a chair stack is good. What's the appropriate?
SPEAKER_04:And I know every chair is different. It's seven high, right?
SPEAKER_02:That's biblical. I mean, that's biblical. I I don't know. You can't go six high. That's that's not good. No, no. You either go three, seven, or ten.
SPEAKER_04:You're summoning some demons in the fellowship hall.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, there's uh there's too many chat, too many stacks of six in this building. Oh no, cast it out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um what what is your what is your church robot dance move? If our friend Jared is listening, I know he does a whole routine worth.
SPEAKER_04:I know. I mean, my my my dance moves may be old. That's okay. There's probably there's probably an overhead projector move.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, dude, it's the crank.
SPEAKER_01:It it's you're because it's got it on a real. See, I I think I think you have the the the slide it in move. You know what I mean? Yep. The swap, the like little DJ. Oh, yeah, little DL DJ. Woo woo. Yep. Course bridge, course bridge, course bridge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that that definitely uh that dates me a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's okay. Everybody drop yours in the chat below. Uh yeah, it can be old school news.
SPEAKER_04:Dude, I knew I knew some student pastors in the day that were like decorating their transparencies. That was like the first step to environmental like worship, like instead.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, dude, just getting someone to do like the flowers. Oh, yeah, like tattoo artist style. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You draw a flame up at the side of a transparency. Somebody's getting saved that night.
SPEAKER_02:Romans 16 and 19 says, repeat. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Ain't no rock. Gonna crack.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, dude, just and the boulders illustrating live as the song is going. Yeah, just a wave of mercy.
SPEAKER_04:Ain't no dude. I haven't thought about that song before.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, how would you illustrate Trading My Sorrows? What would that look like?
SPEAKER_04:I think like most things in the 90s, if you didn't know, you just you just drew a dove.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, that's good. No, yeah, yeah. Just a dove and then you wipe, and then again. Yeah, there's a tomb with a stone rolled away. Rolling away, man. It's rolling away. Um yeah, a lot of a lot of that, uh what what song do you think is the best 90s representation of the important other nineties tattoo trend of a tribal tattoo? Like what do you think what what worship song would get the tribal tattoo border if you were gonna assign graphics to songs? Is there like one that you can think of? I mean, show your power is the one that I'm thinking of.
SPEAKER_04:See, I don't even know what song that is. Show your power.
SPEAKER_02:Oh Lord, I that's what you because you'd flex. Show your power. No, tribal technical. I wasn't around the church at that point yet, my dad. Some of us started earlier than others, my friend. Some of us started or maybe Awesome God. Yeah, awesome God. Yeah. When he rolls up his sleeve, he ain't putting on the writs. It's my favorite line of all worship songs, and it gets often overlooked. So speaking of misheard stuff, okay, so live update. We're gonna do this every once in a while. Uh, live update from Jay High from Zach Working. Uh, we had an interesting occurrence happen last night in J High. We didn't talk about it. Um, so I've been misheard before.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I watched someone else be misheard in a way that it's still it's still sticking to my bones a little bit. Yeah. It's it uh it I told you about it before. I wanted to I want everybody, I want to invite everybody else into it. So I got sixth grade boys, and you know, we're talking about what's happening in our weeks. You know, we're small group time, updates, what's going on, highs, lows, you know, flowers, thorns, whatever. And so one of the kids is in like a big art unit, and so he's like really worried about his art project because he's having to draw like three-dimensionally, so like perspective and shading and cubes, whatever. One kid was like, cubes, like cubism. I was like, Oh yeah, man. So you know, we're having a little conversation about art and pop art and cubism. So we go on talking for like two or three minutes, and then the sleepy kid that's like not really paying attention or whatever, like pops up like it hit him like a lightning bolt, and he was like, Y'all talking about cannibalism.
SPEAKER_04:That that young man was unbelievably confused for a while.
SPEAKER_02:He's like, because the cut we were like deep into like Picasso and like you know, color choice and like a whole thing, you know, like a sixth-grade mine would have. And you could just tell that like he had heard just enough to get it wrong. And so then we had to wind the clock back to assure him that we were not talking about cannibalism. Yeah, I guess that was the only C-ism word that he knew.
SPEAKER_01:So it's like, what does any of this have to do with eating bee boy? Like, I haven't done that in years. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, so we wanted to talk about being misheard and misunderstood. Uh, so don't mishear or misunderstand us. We want to talk about some of the ways we set goals and stay encouraged in the work we do in youth ministry. Um, if there's one temptation I know that happens every fall season, it's to get locked in or locked out of things being on routine. For right or for wrong, sometimes routine in youth ministry feels like like oil and water. It's like, oh no, it was the same thing three weeks in a row. Let's blow it all up, let's change everything. And so we want to talk a little bit about how to stay encouraged, how to maybe do bigger picture stuff, maybe realign, revisit some goals. So, Chad, give us help, help us, help pull us up from the trenches. Because some of us have been doing trent trenching, digging, doing for the last five, six weeks, and it just feels like, oh, here, here we go again, or whatever. Well, I think this rolling up the sleeves ain't putting on our writs.
SPEAKER_04:I think this is in this student ministry world, maybe a little bit different. I think the time frame is important on this, and the thing that I would point to. And I think even for us in the past, a lot of times we're we're maybe setting out an episode about goals or goal setting in December or January.
SPEAKER_02:New year, new budget, new goals.
SPEAKER_04:Correct. And I and I think that that's probably when a lot of people think about it. Uh, I would encourage as kind of the first part of this.
SPEAKER_02:I think right now is a really great time to be thinking about maybe even better because it it is the not the pre-time.
SPEAKER_04:If we actually want something to last, maybe we have to give ourselves more than two weeks to pull it off.
SPEAKER_02:Uh that hurts, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:Fair. Uh and so I think thinking about it right now gives us uh you know a two to three month window to actually start developing a really good plan for next year. Um and and you know, I know a lot of even churches also will start a new budget season in October, yeah, things like that. So if it may be falling in that for your church, depending on how you do budget and that kind of thing. Um, but thinking about where we want to go, the other part of this conversation, and I and you can speak more to this. Um I know that not just student ministry, but church in general, there's often a little bit of a lull uh in the October time frame. And what I mean lull, not by busyness, because it is nothing but busy oftentimes right now. But sometimes it feels even more busy because it's hitting you from every angle. Correct. Um, but many churches will walk through an attendance lull uh in these months. And so if you're walking through that, I would want to echo and remind you that it's probably seasonal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, and a reminder of that, because I think a lot of times we can get into October or September, October time frame. The excitement of new coming.
SPEAKER_02:We're back, we're new, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, coming out off of the beginning of the actual school year. Students start ramping up into football, even some basketball starting. Oh, we've got all of these different things.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, it's midterms and school got hard. We went from syllabus day to a lot of tests. Oh, my grades dropped, my parents kept me home from school. Um, these are all realities, these are all things that you know that are a part of the rhythms of life and can leave you maybe feeling like you need to blow everything up and like, oh my gosh, let's add a fun event. Like, that's always the I I get nervous when it's you know, in the speaking of two weeks, make something happen. Sometimes we can fill the lull, and I'm like, okay, in two weeks, let's let's say I had like a big thing. Well, let's add something big to like to shake it up, mix it up.
SPEAKER_04:I want to talk vulnerable for a moment. Okay. And I want us to be honest. Okay. Not in our best moments, okay? In unhealthy Zach or Chad. October hits, yeah, and we've all been there. You attendance is down a little bit. What was, and it may have been fine for you. I don't know. What was Unhealthy Zach's tendency if you saw a decrease in attendance? Or just started feeling like, man, things aren't going the way that I want them to go.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, to plan a senior high camping trip. What do you mean? Just yeah, just like we well, we should we should take them all camping because you know they're not busy on the weekend like that's an extra event. We're gonna do an extra thing. But here's how how it works out. That's how it plans out for us. Um, Sunday morning we're all gonna we're you know, we're sleeping outdoors on Saturday. Oh, we're all gonna be there on Sunday. Like they wouldn't go home because they were tired.
SPEAKER_04:Fair.
SPEAKER_02:Did it work? Never, it never worked. Not a single time. Tried it three times, never worked. Because you know why? They actually are busy on the weekends. Like the legit like they actually were at a football game Friday, and then their dad took them to the OU OSU game Saturday, or they had ACT or a job or whatever. Like they weren't blowing smoke, they actually had stuff going on. Like they weren't, they weren't lazy on Friday, Saturday to not make an appearance on Sunday. They were legitimately like, you know, they had stuff doing and happening. And so it was one of those like we had the kids come to that that came to the things that they always came to. Like it wasn't, it wasn't the dynamic, like, oh, we shook it up. And so I think that's probably the mistake I made is instead of it being sincere in its purpose of like, oh, we have the kids that are always coming, let's make it thoughtful or deep or refreshing or renewing. It was like, if we have something, we'll obviously have kids that don't typically come.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because it wasn't built that way, and it wasn't built in the right way to do the thing. It was it was legitimately we had another event for the sake of another event. Sure.
SPEAKER_04:You well, you know, I always did things pretty healthy, Zach. Um no, man, when I was especially when I was younger, like I mean, and I don't know if it's I I think for you where you would plan an a different outside event, my tendency was to make want to make what we were doing like feel like unmissable.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So like we're gonna we're gonna host the most fun thing you know what I mean. Like for me, that's that would have been my go-to. So it's like alright, we're we're busting out. We got the big hill behind the church. Yeah. You ever seen 150, you know, foot slipping slides? Yeah, food slipping slide kind of thing. So like we're gonna I I I probably would end up doing stuff like that that that aren't aren't bad things, right? And the camping trip is a great idea, yeah. Maybe somebody here needs to try it.
SPEAKER_02:Wait, and you know what? Fall's a wonderful time to go camping. Better that than camping in July.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. But I think I think for me, the thing that I would point to and the unhealthiness, it often become it felt consuming internally of like I somehow have to make this thing like attractive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, or I gotta jump through their schedule hoops and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, or self-justifying, like, oh, I have this other thing to plan and do. And I think that is, and we've talked about this a lot recently, even in the roles at where we now work, like sometimes busyness that we've come to define in our friendship, sometimes when people answer, reply, or defend their busyness, it's because they feel uncertain or unclear or lack confidence in what they're supposed to be doing. So if you're not really sure uh exactly what's working, you stay busy to helpfully like either hedge the bet or cover the base that we're like, we were doing enough that maybe something will work, but I think it ends up becoming a little bit manic because we didn't actually focus on the thing that we were like really believing in. I think that's why when we talk about goal setting or vision, these aren't big corporate words. I think they're recentering words for us. Like, what were we trying to do? What were we really about? And if we're unsatisfied or dissatisfied with what's working or not working, instead of trying to slap more on, like let's reevaluate what we're even really here to do. Cause like again, both of our responses were us trying to double down on something that could have been like true to what we were about, but it was like, oh, we gotta we gotta make up for a deficiency. It was like this weird vitamin thing that we're like trying to take a shot of this to you know bolster that, and maybe that's not what it needed to be.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. Well, and I I think I think and we've talked a lot, even when I mean, for our listeners here, when Zach and I first started just doing a podcast, yeah, some of it, well, the all of it came out of a need that we saw primarily for by vocational youth ministers or small town youth ministers that we just felt like as we talked to them, we're isolated and alone. Uh and we jumped on and we're like, Well, you and I have friendship that we wanted to kind of extend out of being able to say, Hey, like, you're not alone in this and these feelings. Because to me, that's a big part of this. Like to to believe that as a youth minister, like you're somehow void of how a lack of attendance would actually affect you.
SPEAKER_02:And that you're also susceptible to these feelings.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. And and and I think for a lot of I don't think it's talked about enough. I think sometimes even when in I mean, even for us, right? Like I asked us uh w how did unhealthy Zach or unhealthy Chad respond?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Both of us just thought about the work side of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know what I mean? But if I also were to look back during seasons at a time where I didn't feel like student ministry was going well, there were also really like physically unhealthy times where it was just like damn, I felt my value were was tied up into some of that. And I think there's this like misconception a lot of times that it's just like numbers should always go like up and to the rye. Yeah. And it's just not realistic for anybody.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, but then endless growth forever because that's how any of it ever worked. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Correct. But then there's also this side, and and I we were talking about in pre-show a little bit, is I uh one of the things that I've seen pendulum swing inside of student ministry too, is for some, it's like numbers don't matter to the detriment of it all.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So then it's just like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to these kids for 55 minutes.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you this right now. We'll get these kids down like Gideon's army to the ones that really matter something to. Sure. Then that's how we'll know. That's how we'll know. That's right. That's right. Jesus had 12, I only need two.
unknown:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:He was a son of God.
SPEAKER_04:I can't expect to be pulling those kind of numbers.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right, right. He only could have a youth ministry at 12. What am I supposed to do? Hold on, friend, we have good news for you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Uh no, but uh, you know what I mean? Like there it there feels like there is that like probably swing of the pendulum to where you're either chasing numbers or you don't you don't care because you don't think that that's a valid reason. Yeah. And and I think that there is some caution in that as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:In the midst of all of this, of really and to go back to what we originally want to talk about, as we start to talk about how do we create healthy student ministries, how do we set goals for that, yeah. I think we have to clearly identify, okay, what are we going to measure?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Um, what is I mean, quote unquote success. Yeah. Um, what are goals that we want to set for ourselves, and being uh clearly an objective in them.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I and I think the the reality of being willing enough to change um when we have an understanding of what we were trying to do and what's happening. And I think that that's the mature wisdom we talk about our younger self. That's what 40-year-old Zach would tell 25-year-old Zach, your desire or the stirring you feel to change may actually be a really good thing, but have you sat with it long enough to understand why you feel the need to change so that you don't get to the place where you are unwilling to change. Uh, because that I think is a real tension for a lot of those of us that lead, uh, especially, and if I can be tender for a moment, when you are leading a group of people that are notably immature and not fully formed, I think it calls us to even more so of a clarity and non-anxious presence, um, and uh and a, I don't know, clear vision, right? Like it's one of those, like, you know who needs clear vision the most? Ironically, 14-year-olds because everything else in their life is so unclear that that what they really need from you the most is like, dude, tell me what I need to do, what's next. And so if your response is scattered and reactive and busybodied, you actually are doing a double disservice to both yourself and the ministry. Right. And I think that's at the heart of some of it. Like, I do think that numbers matter. I do think that kids should be there. I do think the weekly gathering time should be valuable enough and engaging and educating and equipping enough that they would see it rightly for its value. But I also know they're 14-year-old kids and like they don't always have their priorities straight. And so for you to like feel off put because they were unsure or moms and dads were feeling insecure, like one of the best gifts that we can give is the clarity, confidence, security of like this really matters, held with enough love and grace that we invite them into it. And so uh I just I just think there's something that we just got to stay on the right side of um not letting us, ourselves or youth ministry be tossed in the waves of the week to week uh without a a bigger picture of what we were trying to do. I think that's one of the things. Um, so so we've been joking about like the fifth and sixth grade ministry stuff a little bit. What one of the biggest encouragements that I gave our our new guy is you only have them for two years. So from the immediacy, just understand you can't teach them everything. And that's a gift. Like they can't know it all in two years. The exciting part is you have them exactly for two years. So what would you want them to know for two years? So it's like the flip side of the question, right? Like it's one of those, like, this is all that you have. And so for the same for you, whether you have them from six through twelve, seven through twelve, or whatever, that they're not gonna know it all, they're not gonna grow it all, they're not gonna do it all, and they're not their fully formed self because they're 14 to 17, they're 13 to 18. So what is what is the thing? And probably in a way that you could have it written down or put on a wall or canonized, memorized, or whatever, like have it, have it enough in front of you that if the numbers dip by 10%, you don't blow it all up. But if they dip by 15, then we talk about maybe we need to adjust. And I think having some real conversations about both what it is as a program and organization for people that's measured and calculated in stories and not just, you know, up and to the right or down and to the left really, really matter.
SPEAKER_04:So well, and like you're talking about with two years, but even for all student ministers out there, like at most you have them for seven or eight years, right? If you have like the full game.
SPEAKER_02:Nine if they, you know, eight grades hard. That's right. Uh we call that victory lap is where I come from.
SPEAKER_04:Um but I but I I do I I think that that's something, and you know, in the coaching world, we would refer to it as you know, our scope and sequence type thing. Right. It's like this this plan of education. But I think every student ministry being able to think through if if in the ideal situation we have a kid that walks into our ministry as a fifth grader or sixth grader, by the time they graduate high school, what are the key components that we want them to learn and know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Some of those are going to be repeated every year, yeah, or every semester.
SPEAKER_02:Because not because of any other reason than this. They matter that much. Right. And it's okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. There is probably more than one time that you want to teach on the fact that Jesus died first. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, but but I think thinking through like in a grand scheme of thing where it's not week to week, but even educationally, like what are the big things that we want to make sure to cover? That's going to help us develop a teaching plan on Wednesday night if you do that. It's also and rightfully so. I think when you start to evaluate like a small group material, you know what I mean? That even we make, yeah, put it, put it through the rigors of asking, like, what are my students going to learn over a given period of time?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And if you can't answer that, no offense, and I'll throw shade against anybody else. You should run.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like if there's no idea of a scope or sequence, and that's why even a little bit like I want to push back, like, if you don't have a plan, you can expect your students to to grow at least on the knowledge side of things. Yeah. But then down to thinking through even past knowledge, what do you want your students to experience over seven years?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's the what we talked about last week on the podcast, go back and listen, the encouragement towards competencies and confidence. Like that's one of those more than just I want my students to have read the whole Bible. Great. Add that to a check mark. That's another statistic to measure how many kids have. But how many of them feel confident enough to have written, uh, recited and shared their testimony? That's a part of the scope and sequence too. And you know what? That may work better when fewer kids are there. Um, but you need to have a plan for that and not just a reaction to what's going on. And then again, it it is trusting the process. Uh the one one of the one of the most powerful images that seems to be really true for aging pastors is a return to the love of either the land, either gardening, farming, or fishing, or some kind of like slow burn of a process of like, you know, making something that just takes time. It just takes time.
SPEAKER_04:Well, the the other big benefit of what we're talking about, too, if if we want to get really on a professional level to talk about this, having a plan like this allows you, one, to speak clearly to your leadership, yeah, of the work that you're doing beyond just being busy.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04:Like, hey, here's our plan of where we're wanting to take students. Yeah. This season, here's what we're focusing on, right? Whether that be I want them to understand the book of Sean, or it's down to what we're working on right now is how to read the Bible, right? Any of those type of things, but to be thinking through some of those competencies that you were if if somebody were to ask you um how are students following Christ more because of your ministry, um, we hopefully we should we we could start to answer some of those questions in more of a way than well, we hope that they showed up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Or or even something as noble as we teach the Bible every week. Like that is, but one of the things that we we have said, and let's say it again clearly, like, part of the plan is publicizing the plan. Like, give the game away. Like, I we have sat to too many parent teacher nights where they're letting their us know like how we can be involved and what we are about. Like, like if this is the semester of how students are gonna be able to open their Bible and rightly study and feel confident about reading their Bible on their own, that's a really compelling ask to a parent, more than hey, come back on Wednesday. Wednesday is generic, but this fall, fall of 25, this is the fall that we spring 26 is the spring that we're all gonna learn our and learn and share our testimony. We're gonna be confident enough, tell our friends about Jesus, don't miss the next six weeks. That's a very different invite than I hope you guys want to come join us. Right. And the invite also may be fun and silly. It may be, guys, you know, the first week of April, uh, we're having a huge dodgeball tournament or slip and slide event. I think it's the best way for you to hang out with some friends. And like there's there's there's reason to that, but it has it all starts in that nugget of like, what were we trying to do? And was the thing that we were trying to do the thing that we thought was the most important, or the thing that we were trying to do because we were unsure of what we were supposed to do.
SPEAKER_04:So before this episode, and we don't have to camp out on it long, yeah, but I there was a really interesting conversation that you and I were having that I think is a good way to wrap this up.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So I I was asking you, okay, as we talk through this, what's the practical thing that we we want for you guys? Hopefully you see that we're trying to a little bit practice what we preach, yeah, and that like or report what we didn't do. Or report what we didn't do. Zach's boss is real killer. Yeah. Uh the I I think that one of the things that I asked Zach was do we want to help them maybe even think through like doing like a SWOT analysis, you know what I mean, to do like really look at what are the strengths of our student ministry, what are the weaknesses, opportunities, threats, those kind of things.
SPEAKER_02:And sorry, I just I'm imagining someone in youth ministry world taking the SWO really seriously and then threats, just writing down stuff like zombies or creepers because we can't help it.
SPEAKER_04:Normally it's like Jessica's mom.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_04:No, but so I I thought about I so uh like is that a good place? Like if we're thinking through how do we help them create, you know, some some thoughts or some goals for this next year, some structures, maybe that's a great starting place to begin with because we want to give you guys hopefully some tools or some ideas of where to start with, and we're not just people that are like seems like a problem. See you guys next week. Hardship. Right. Um sounds like you guys are really pretty fat because not enough kids are showing up. Um, but then you said something really interesting. Oh no, okay. But here's the deal. Okay. The more I think about it, and it I'll if I've been distracted this episode, it's because I've been thinking about this the whole time. What did you say? You remember? You go, you literally looked at me in the face and you go, Yeah, but it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, oh, because most most folks that do SWOT analysis don't make the change that it requires.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I mean, I mean, no fits. If this is you, please, please report back. I would love to hear different. I've yet to meet a group of people that did a SWOT analysis that took it seriously enough that it made a radical change in what they were doing. For most folks, it was an affirmation of, well, that's why we do what we do. It's like a personality test where you're like, I'm just a people person.
SPEAKER_01:I'm a letterdoor retriever. Yeah, yeah. That's just I'm just a golden doodle. I can't help it. Or well, I'm I'm antisocial.
SPEAKER_02:So that's you know, I'm I'm just an administrator. Yeah, I'm I'm just a I'm green and gold, I'll never feel as deep as a blue. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, pick your one, right? Like, this is it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Like, I'm watching people stand behind their Myers Briggs or Enneagram as like a defense shield against change. Sure. And so, yeah, I would love to know what your strengths and weaknesses and opportunities and threats are if you're willing enough to take them seriously. And I think that's that's one of the things about the numbers game that actually. Does have teeth on it because if those change enough, somebody has to take it seriously. I just hope that you could take something seriously enough as a strength, a weakness, an opportunity, or a threat that it would cause you to change and not force you to change.
SPEAKER_04:It's really interesting. And ultimately, that's what the process should do. But you're right. I think I think oftentimes people see, even before you walk through a situation or process like that, and you know that it doesn't feel right, right? Or we definitely have to make some changes and those type of things. But just going through the process of identifying it more clearly doesn't necessarily change anything. And I think we've probably, and before I step on anybody's toes, we've probably both been those individuals at different times where we've noticed the things not working. Yeah. But it's just like you're either too tired or you don't want to reimagine it. And so it's just like, well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna just trudge through September and October. Yeah. Knowing that kids are gonna show back up for the Christmas party. Yeah. And probably re-re-engaged. That's why D now, that's why D now exists. You're probably not wrong, but oh, that hurts a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Like, listen, man, I do two churches, two different seasons. We did the whole thing. We committed days, staff hours, monies to it. And at the end it was an acknowledgement and it wasn't a call to action. And I again, I don't know what I would have done differently. I was a young man in it. I was committed, I was excited about it. But I think for a lot of us, the heart of change starts well before the evaluation.
SPEAKER_04:And it starts before the program and the process. That's where I would take us to. That is the reminder for me in all of this. And even for us, it's why I think as we get to the end of this episode, we're not also not throwing out everything we just said.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because I think it'd be really easy to listen to this if you feel like, and I'm in a slump or there are things that need to be changed, to not just go back to the whiteboard again, throw it all up on the whiteboard of saying, This is what we got to change, here are our goals for this next year, to then never look at them again until six months later and realize, well, we ain't hitting any of those, and we're just continuing to move down the same thing. I think the reminder for us, if we're feeling this way, and it's hard, but it's the reality and the truth, is so much of leadership and um leading a minister as a shepherd begins with us. Um, and it begins with changing the way that we think about things, changing the attitude that we bring to it, all of those type of things that I think is the true place to start in the midst of this, or we feel stuck. But my encouragement though to you is this because if you're bent like me and you feel that, even for a guy that you don't know speaking on a podcast, it may take you to a place where you're like, Man, I am not good at this. And my encouragement to you today is a part of change is also giving yourself grace um and having people that can speak into your life. And so even though I may not know you today, if you're a faithful minister who is obedient to the Lord and you're trying to do this the best that you possibly can, whether you have three students throwing up showing up or 300 and you feel like you're in a big room all alone, my encouragement to you today is this that God is working in and through you, not just for the students and not just for the ministry that you lead, but to grow and shape you. And so my encouragement as you look at this next year is that you don't void yourself from the process, but you ask yourself right here and right now, God, what are you calling me to change in my own life, the way that I address it, my role in student ministry as a student minister leader? Um, what are you calling me to repent from? What are you calling me to grow in? Um, how can I radically change and continue to grow my own relationship with you? Some of the most healthy student ministries that I see are not the ones that have the best plan and the coolest look and the most awesome space and all those kind of things. It is having men and women who are leaders who are radically chasing after Jesus because hopefully that's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_00:Snap.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, thanks for this episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast. Make sure you stay tuned for the next few weeks. We have some special guests coming up for our 10-year anniversary as we rewind for what has been and we look towards the future of what will be in youth ministry.
