Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Timeless Jesus In Strange Times w/ Shane Pruitt
Broncos, Gameboys, Doves... er uh Pigeons?
Join Zac for an interview with Shane Pruitt. As they discuss how our culture has shifted to embracing a distorted version of a personalized Jesus while rejecting biblical authority, and why youth ministers must help students discover the authentic Jesus of Scripture.
SHOW NOTES
• Culture has shifted from accepting God-talk but rejecting Jesus-talk to accepting Jesus-talk but rejecting Bible-talk
• People reshape Jesus into their own image, creating an idol with Jesus' name
• The Jesus many claim to follow often aligns perfectly with their preferences and prejudices
• False views of Jesus lead to incorrect evangelism, discipleship, and mission
• The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) are where we rediscover the authentic Jesus
• If our understanding of Jesus never challenges us, we might be following a false version
• The new "Not My Jesus" Bible study is available for both teens and adults to study together
• Jesus makes the invisible God visible – to know God's heart, look to Jesus' heart
Check out "Not My Jesus" Bible study from Lifeway, with free teaching videos included with each purchase.
https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/not-my-jesus-teen-bible-study-book-with-video-access-P005850065
the student one, the kid one, but then I mean based on the social media. There's also one for pigeons. You've also got the pigeon appendix.
Speaker 2:What's?
Speaker 1:up. Welcome back to another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast. Hanging out with one of our oldest friends, I'm sorry that's definitely old.
Speaker 2:What's up, brother Zach? Always love talking to you, man, we just have fun. We laugh a lot, talk a lot and uh and you know it's funny because my wife will make fun of us as ministry leaders, Cause she'll like, uh, ministry leaders are the worst at like meeting somebody talking for five minutes and then after that you're're like, oh, my good friend or my, you know, but like you and I are legitimately friends and we do go way back you know, we, we, we go, we go back.
Speaker 1:I think it's at this point. I don't want to date anybody. It's got to be at least 20 years, because you were speaking at super summer when I was a college student.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah you were like youth pastor, church planner, stuff, so no, so it's funny you say that In our seminary classes yesterday we just got some of our Strength Finder stuff back and the top line on my finding your strength thing is Zach's the kind of guy that strangers are just friends he hasn't met yet, or something like that oh, 100% yeah, that's definitely you, bro, for sure, yeah, I got Karen.
Speaker 2:Good the 100% yeah, that's definitely you bro For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got. I got Karen good the other day. She's doing back to school stuff. She literally had a new teacher at school that was in ministry stuff that I guess, came up to her and was like you're Zach's wife, right, there was just one of those. She was like how are you in my world and I world?
Speaker 2:that I'm like, sorry it happens.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep Ministry is a small guild Like that's one of the things that some people don't know is that, like you need to treasure your ministry friends, even if they're not your closest ones because, as co-laborers. They're going to show up again Like that's one of the things in ministry, Like if we really believe in the called part, there literally is a community of calling and so don't, don't neglect the calls?
Speaker 2:No, no man. And there's a way, like the way we identify with each other, like you just get it, you know. And one thing I love about ministry friends too is because I have other friends in my life. That and this sounds terrible, but it's real. It takes some work, you know. Like you know where you're, like it really takes some work to be there, show up for each other, and in ministry we move so fast that when another brother or sisters in ministry, they just get it. So you may not talk for months, but you just pick up where you left off, you know, because we all get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's an understanding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, speaking of understanding, we're going to talk about a book and understanding misunderstanding jesus, uh, but as old friends, uh, we're getting older and so I had to share we are a little bit. We're in that midlife crisis phase as someone who just turned 40. We were sharing photos, uh. So I got my midlife crisis this last weekend turned 40 so she's sitting out front.
Speaker 1:It's my little 1990 bronco too but, you were telling me uh, for you, you hit the, you hit the 40 wall and you've been collecting, uh, vintage shoes and gaming stuff. Tell me more, man, what?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay you just order, yeah, so you know, you and I were just talking about this before. You know we hit record, but I feel like you know, especially dudes, when you get in your 40s, something hits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and maybe you get just a little bit of disposable income where you go OK, I want to get that thing that I always wanted, that I never got as a kid, or I want to go back and get that thing I had as a kid, because of the nostalgia, you know. And so my dad did the same thing. He did it with vehicles, you know. You got a cool vehicle.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, but for me it's been just a place to put money into, just pumping money.
Speaker 2:But yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've always been a sneaker head, so shoes, that's an easy one, but there's two things that, uh, that Casey much to Casey's disdain, cause she just doesn't get it is I started collecting. Yeah, I started collecting sports cards again. Now, some of that is cause my kids have gotten into it, but now you. So whenever I travel you know, you and I travel a lot, Um, and if you get a little bit of downtime you're like man, man, what's the things I want to do around here? You want to be around the city, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I look up old sports card shops and so, man, I just buy like I've been buying like old football cards, old baseball cards, oh, like basketball cards, the cards that were like yeah, so the cards I wanted as a kid, or the not new?
Speaker 2:kid, but the ones you wanted, okay, okay yeah, the kids, either the one I wanted as a kid or the ones I knew I had as a kid, that I don't know where they ended up, and then the second thing is some game that's so deep, so like pray for me, man, because this is a big prayer request is, right now I'm in a bidding war on eBay for an original 1989 Game Boy, all right, and it already comes with a Tetris cartridge, you know. So it's like, man, that was like my first video game system was an original Nintendo. I'm really dating myself in an original Game Boy. So I'm in a bidding war right now for an original 1989 Game Boy system because I'm like how fun would that be? But secondly, you will blow some people's minds at the airport, you know, as they're playing their phones or their new systems, and I just bust out an old Game Boy. How awesome is that going to be, dude, that's going to be a major flex.
Speaker 1:It's fine. It's Kirby 2. I'm playing Kirby.
Speaker 2:I'm playing Teenage.
Speaker 1:Mutant Ninja Turtles over here. I'll go. I'll go find you a copy of megaman 2.
Speaker 2:You, you, you land the game boy I'll get you a megaman 2 yeah, dude, I'm going.
Speaker 1:Zelda man with the gold game cartridge, yep yeah there you go, there you go, dude, that's so funny, but it is true like there is this like longing or nostalgia for, um man, what we used to know or have, and so in some ways, I want to have that as a little bit of a jumping off point, because the new book that you've written for our team at Lifeway that we're so excited about is the ways in which it's both a study and a learning tool to really get at. I don't know. We talked about it before. The show Jesus is really popular.
Speaker 1:Like, just to talk about Jesus is almost okay to do, but if you talk about what he means or what he says, when it has a certain kind of like lordship over your life. Now we're having a different conversation, and so for teenagers today, there is this like I don't know, jesus is okay, jesus is fine to talk about, but the ways in which it isn't just a good idea or good teaching has really gotten caught up to, because that was one of the things when I was growing up. Again, things are cyclical, but some of the things persist was the Jesus is my homeboy shirts.
Speaker 2:Like that was journeys in the mall existed to sell, to sell ACQs, and Jesus is my homeboy shirts.
Speaker 1:And so tell me a little bit, like now, as you travel, speak and do and talk to teenagers what is the Christological tension, like working with teenagers today? What is the understanding misunderstandings of Jesus today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, zach, you nailed it. I mean you're around young people, You're around next gen leaders. You feel their felt need and you nailed it. In fact, there's been a cultural shift to where used to you go back several years ago people would say, like in the world, in the public square, you could talk about God, because most people believed in God, they weren't offended by God. Just use the name God or your faith and that was okay. So they would say, hey, in culture you can talk about God, just don't talk about Jesus, because then that's where everybody gets serious or that weirds people out. They'll look at you as an odd for God, jesus freak. So you can talk about God, just don't talk about Jesus. And as we know, like you just articulated so well, in the recent couple of years it's actually shifted to where, in the public square you can talk about Jesus because whatever your thing is, whatever your agenda is, whatever your cause is, jesus is like the hero of that movement.
Speaker 1:So in the public, square you can talk about. He's the most compassionate, the most generous, the most bearded. Yeah, absolutely yeah, dude, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so in the public square you can talk about Jesus. Everybody's cool with that. Just don't talk about the Bible, because then that's where everybody gets a little bit tense, so you can talk about.
Speaker 2:Jesus, just don't talk about the Bible. The problem with that is is that the Jesus? That's how we know Jesus best. Yeah, yeah, often the Jesus that people are talking about in the public square we need to make this clear is not the Jesus of the scripture. It's typically a Jesus molded by their own opinions, their own preferences, their own tolerances. Basically, you know, if you were to take an Old Testament illustration, they're the potter. Jesus is the clay. So they've shaped Jesus to be who they want him to be, and that's the Jesus they follow. That's the Jesus they tell others about, that's the Jesus they worship. The problem with that is if it's not the Jesus of the Bible, all people did was create an idol named Jesus, so it's really an image of me. I just slapped Jesus' name on it. Who we need is the Jesus of the scriptures, because he's the King of Kings, he's the Lord of Lords, he is the one who saves sinners, he's the one who gives us eternal life and he's the one who transforms us. And so I would say any Jesus.
Speaker 1:But that's messy work when our idol has the same name of the person, of the God that we're trying to like unpack on, yeah, yeah to get into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so what we need is a Jesus of the scriptures.
Speaker 1:Instead of conversion, it's subversion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not a Jesus of our opinions. I say this all the time your opinions about Jesus does not change who he is. It's the same yesterday, today, forever. However, our faith in the real Jesus will absolutely change who we are, and that's why today, jesus is popular. But if you've noticed, the longer someone typically talks about their Jesus, the less and less he sounds like the Jesus of the word of God, and so that is our litmus test, it starts to sound like a lot of the things that they love.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:The word of god points to the word of god. The word of god is named jesus, you know, and so, yeah, it's like my jesus gets angry about the things I get angry about. My jesus is passionate about what I'm passionate about. My jesus tolerates the lifestyles I tolerate. That's not the real jesus is the jesus of the scriptures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what, what would you say? I mean especially, I'm thinking through for teenagers, yeah, but even for pastoral folks that have grown up in a certain way, because I think this is some of the temptation, or at least the challenge is, that everybody has. I mean, is it inescapable that we all are at risk at becoming the potter and Jesus the clay? Is that? Kind of part of what it means to have Christianity as a religion that's socially acceptable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And that. And you know the Bible study Not my Jesus which I did with you guys at Lifeway just such a great relationship partnership there. You know we did a teen version and an adult version and each session in there takes this false view of Jesus versus who the Bible says he is. It's really a study through the four gospels Matthew, mark, luke and John to discover the real Jesus there versus false cultural opinions of him. But a lot of times we can take that and go okay, well, now I have the real Jesus, you have the fake Jesus. Let me educate you.
Speaker 1:We become snarky.
Speaker 2:And that's not the point of the study. The point of the study is a lot of self-reflection to go. What are some false things I believe about Jesus, what are some things that maybe tradition has taught me that scriptures hasn't? Or what are some things that I prefer over actually what the Bible says, some things that I prefer over actually what the Bible says. And so it's a lot of self-reflection, because I think we can all be drawn that way to think that Jesus really matches what I care about versus me. You know, surrendering to Jesus and caring about what he cares about. And yeah, we're all tempted to that every single day, you know.
Speaker 1:So what's the quick check on it then? Is it one of those? If our Jesus doesn't challenge me, does he become my Jesus?
Speaker 2:Is that part?
Speaker 1:of what's the quick check. If I read the Bible and never feel offended, maybe I'm in trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, I would say, the Bible, the Word of God, is always the litmus test, you know, really, the word of God points to the word of God. The word of God has a name, and name is Jesus. Now I want to be careful to say that the Bible isn't above Jesus, you know. But the point I want to make is that.
Speaker 1:some people have done that, some people have made that the part of the Trinity instead of yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But we got to remember the the part of the Trinity instead of yeah, yeah, absolutely. But we got to remember, the ultimate author of the Bible is the Holy Spirit, right Working through human authors. And here's what I would say is the Trinity is a perfect relationship God, the Father, god, the Son, god, the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit is not going to contradict the Son of God, is not going to contradict the Son of God, and that's the point I want to make is that the Holy Spirit, in writing the Scriptures, is going to affirm who the real Son of God is. So here's how I approach it. It's like anything that I believe about Jesus that doesn't line up with what the Holy Spirit said through the Scriptures. I'm in the wrong, not the Bible, and I think that's where we typically want to go. The other way is we want to move the Bible over to match our preferences instead of us repenting and lining up with the scriptures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some of the ways? Is this something that and we talk about it, I think, at large, at culture? How do you see this happening inside the church as well? Is this something that's like an in-house problem as much as it is a cultural problem? Like what are some of the tensions there for folks that may have? Because, again, we're always forming opinions, we're always being formed towards something? Where do you feel like if this is just an in-house conversation, especially amongst youth ministry folks that have deep concern for making teenagers true followers, true disciples of Jesus? What are some things that we need to make sure and name amongst the community of those that are called to do youth ministry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great questions I just always kind of default to. I believe if the Lord is going to impact the world around us, impact our communities, impact our campuses, he's going to shake up His own family first. Right, he's going to shake up the church house first, and so I think that we always start there, we self-reflect there. Used to, I think, in student ministry. You and I have both been around the student ministry world for a long time. You know, used to for the most part. If you came across a teenager as a youth leader or youth pastor and said, hey, are you a Christian, are you a follower of Jesus? And they responded with like, yeah, I love Jesus, I am a follower of Jesus, you'd be like, great, you're my brother in Christ, you're my sister in Christ.
Speaker 2:Today, I think there's been so many cultural influences that have crept into the church, or so many cultural influences that have really been an intended agenda towards young people, and so the longer they talk about their Jesus, the less and less he sounds like the Jesus of the scriptures. And so I would just say we need to spend more time really helping students understand who the real Jesus is, because in youth ministry, if we don't get Jesus right, we don't get anything right. Like, if we don't get Jesus right, we don't get evangelism right Because we're going to be telling people about a false Jesus. If we don't get Jesus right, we don't get discipleship right Because we're going to be discipling our students in a false Jesus. If we don't get Jesus right, we don't get missions right. We're going to go tell the nations about a fake Christ.
Speaker 2:And so we got to get Jesus right, and so that's why I would say we got to dive into the Bible. For those who don't know Jesus, we help them discover who the real Jesus is. For those who do know Jesus, maybe it's a little bit of rediscovering who the real Jesus is and to go okay, what are some things? I've allowed the influence of the world to influence how I view Jesus, instead of the word influencing how I view Jesus, and I think that's the tension. A lot of times we're letting the world disciple us more than the word disciple us and how we view Jesus.
Speaker 1:Where does that place of rediscovery start? I mean, does it start at Christmas, in the incarnation? Does it start in Jesus, amongst the Pharisees? Like where do you feel like a lot of that rediscovery, like where's that first foothold? If someone again, if they're looking into the study, if they're like wanting to take to heart, take to serious, getting this right, either from the book or from your wisdom, like what's the best place, the starting point for teenagers today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think where we start is the Gospels Matthew, mark, luke and John, and that was really the intention of this Bible study, you know. So each session set up where it takes a false view of Jesus. I would give example One is personal genius. He's just there to say yes to all my prayer requests to do whatever I want, versus what does the gospel say about him. So I think we look at the gospels Matthew, mark, luke and John this study is really a study through those gospels and there's daily devos in their videos, free videos that Lifeway's made available, you know, through the study, and we just look at the Gospels and say what does the Bible say? And then we compare yeah, what do I believe that's not lining up with who the Gospels say is and I love it, you know, I love you brought up Christmas.
Speaker 2:One of the names of Jesus that we use at Christmas every year is the name Emmanuel, god with us, and so Jesus is making the invisible God visible, according to Colossians 1. So if you want to know what God's like, look to Jesus. You want to know the heart of God, look to the heart of Jesus. You want to know the face of God. Look to the face of Jesus, because Jesus isn't just sent from God, jesus is God. So we look at the scriptures, really discover who the real Jesus is, and then let that affect how we view the world around us.
Speaker 1:What is it? So? There's a student study, adult study. Are there some unique differences between the two, or some things that are like leveled at different ways, that that are adult conversations versus teen conversations that you'd want folks to know? Yeah, more politics, more political concerns for the adults in the room. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go, yeah, yeah. So what was funny just kind of a backstory there, zach is I actually wrote this with your team, lifeway Students, and we did a student version first, a teen version first, and then we started really looking at it, and that's how the adult team got involved as well. Is they go? Well, if young people are believing false beliefs about Jesus, it comes from somewhere some kind of adult in their life and so let's write one for adults that way, so whole families can do it together, whole churches can do it together, and the content is the same. So the topics are the same. The content the teenager.
Speaker 1:one obviously is written for students, so the illustrations maybe the application, the devos.
Speaker 2:those are more geared towards teens. Same thing with the adults the illustrations, the stories, the application, the daily devos that's geared towards adults. And then one thing that Lifeway has done that's been really fun is that every single Bible study booklet you get at the back has a code for where you can go watch and download the teaching videos for free. So the videos there's some that are geared specifically for students and some geared specifically for adults and you get access to those whenever you buy the booklet as well.
Speaker 1:So there's the student one, the kid one, but then I mean based on the social media, there's also one for pigeons. You've also got the booklet as well. So there's the student one, the kid one, but then I mean based on the social media, there's also one for pigeons. You've also got the pigeon appendix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, you can tell. Hey, that's why I just stay in my lane of preaching the word and making disciples and stay in ministry, because obviously I am not a bird expert man. Yes, I think. Yeah, we had so much fun. Yeah, hey, you know, we've recorded all over New York man, that was so much fun being with the student team, adult team and just hanging out in New York for a week. And so we were in one of the parks and this guy is like a local legend, like he's like a bird guy. He's like he's like the lady from Home Alone 2. The birds are always on. I went up to him. I was like, hey, can I get the birds on me?
Speaker 1:So they were, and then yeah, man, I called them, so he helped you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, dude, he helped me, got them on me and then it was just as soon as it got through talking, they just like swarmed off. But the problem is is I'm calling them doves the whole time. I'm relating them to the Holy Spirit, you know, because the Holy Spirit they sound like a dove and they're pigeons, man, you know like they're park pigeons, but I'm calling them doves the whole time. But anyway, man, it was still fun. And then, of course, my oldest daughter, my oldest daughter's 19. And only in a way that she can, she's dad, you're gonna get some kind of weird bird flu from those. And then I'm like, oh man, you're right. And then I'm like, do I feel bad? I'm feeling a little achy, I feel sick. So she had me paranoid for a good, you know, 24 hours or so did you get sick?
Speaker 1:did you get? Did you get pigeon? Flu? No, I didn't.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't as far as I know, I think I grew a couple of feathers, but they you shaved them right off.
Speaker 1:There you go, there you go. I love moldy bread, I just love it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, shane, thank you so much for coming to share today. Man, we are excited about the book and the things that are happening. So, for folks looking to check out a study that would be available for both students and adults together on a timely topic for a timeless Jesus, check out Not my Jesus by our buddy, shane Pruitt. Shane, what's next for you, my friend? Where do you head this fall and spring? What do you got cooking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you know just, we'll continue to travel and speak and work on some other projects and then really excited about a project coming out next year with B&H, who obviously is also connected to Lifeway. I just love making content with y'all. Y'all are the best of the best. So we've got a book coming out the first of next year with B&H on Generation Alpha, and I'm so excited, you know, because typically when it comes to generational studies, let's just be honest A lot of times the secular space is ahead of the ball game and the Christian space is always about five to 10 years behind. But there's not even any secular books out yet. So I mean, there's a few little online things, but we're even in the Christian space. We're being proactive this time, and so we got a book coming out first part of next year on Gen Alpha and even beating the secular space. So hopefully it will be a help to leaders, parents, teachers, coaches. We wrote this generic to where it's available and will be a help to anyone impacting Generation Alpha. So we're excited about it.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thank you, brother. I appreciate you so much and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2:Grateful for you, my friend. Yeah, Thanks brother. I appreciate you so much and we'll talk to you soon. Grateful for you, my friend. Yeah, Thanks brother.
