Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Relational Youth Ministry: Why The Connections Matter More Than Programs w/ Jay Winn
Jay Winn shares how his youth ministry at Riverpoint Church is shifting toward a more relational approach in response to changing student needs. Despite having fewer resources following leadership transitions, Jay is finding success by investing deeply in authentic connections with students rather than focusing primarily on programs and events.
• Returning to "old school youth ministry" with a focus on authentic relationships and personal discipleship
• Making small groups optional rather than mandatory, resulting in more engaged participation
• Moving midweek gatherings to Thursday nights with a discussion-based format that has grown from 30 to 85 students
• Creating systems where youth staff have specific students to check on regularly, making relationships a measurable part of ministry
• Recognizing Gen Z students' increasing need for one-on-one mentoring amid rising anxiety and information overload
• Structuring Sunday morning as the ministry's "front door" with high-energy programming while reserving other gatherings for deeper discussion
• Working toward a staffing model with one full-time staff member for every 50 students
• Planning a fall retreat focused on helping students reconnect with God personally rather than focusing on service to others
Join the Youth Ministry Booster community to connect with other youth pastors who are growing, learning, and adapting their ministries to meet today's challenges.
It's set up Ahoy Snap.
Speaker 2:Hey, we're back with another episode of the Athenian Booster Podcast. Hanging out with our buddy J Wynn in the garage, yeah, Come on man. Hey, I know you didn't do this for us, but thanks for making the drive up for Houston just for this, you know, just for this hey.
Speaker 1:I would do it in a heartbeat for you, truly.
Speaker 2:Listen, man, sometimes it's good to have friends in town and just to be like hey, man, what if we just turned our coffee into a recording? Let's just like, yeah, let's just let's catch up and record it. And so, jamie, I'm so glad that you're here with us hanging out in the garage talking about things. Man, how was summer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, hot, hot. I'm in Houston, texas, so it is hot.
Speaker 2:All the time.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, but it definitely makes you stronger. Yeah, and the kids a little bit less rambunctious.
Speaker 2:Now? Are you doing camping in Texas too, or are you all trying to go camp?
Speaker 1:elsewhere. We actually for the first time actually split our camps. We did a high school camp and a middle school camp, so two weeks in Houston heat In Houston heat. First one was in June and it actually wasn't too bad.
Speaker 2:We kind of actually got some clouds a little bit of rain, a little early enough on.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, which was kind of funny, because then the kids had more energy and we had a little bit more to patrol.
Speaker 2:They weren't passing out at 5 pm.
Speaker 1:But for middle school camp it was definitely hot in July, and so they they definitely needed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, get calmed down with the uh the heat weather. Just just sweating it out, Just wringing their shirts.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Multiple t-shirts every day, but the smell was disgusting, so it was all their sweaty clothes.
Speaker 1:We had to have a camper actually have his mom bring him extra clothes. That's how bad it was. Had to bring fresh clothes. Yes, he said they were just too nasty.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what? Bless her. Bless her for doing that. Bless you, mom, for bringing the extra clothes. Because, dude, oklahoma, texas, summers, like I teased earlier, like this is T-shirt number two. We were on the second T-shirt of the day. We were outside doing a little bit of yard work, stuff came in and so we are fully on outfit three. We had gym this morning, we had our morning apparel, we're now on afternoon clothes. See, you would survive in Houston.
Speaker 1:I would. No, I wouldn't, you would. Oh, I'm ready.
Speaker 2:You got your multiple outfits already picked up.
Speaker 1:The thing in Houston, though, is people typically wear less, less.
Speaker 2:You just be out with no shirt on, that's normal. That's normal, hey man. Yeah, dress up with two tank tops. There it is. Well, man, we're so glad to have you. I feel like this is long overdue. We've been friends in ministry for several years to have a formal conversation about how some things are going at RPC, just some of the things that God is showing you, teaching you in ministry. Man, in the midst of fatherhood too, like that's one of the things that I always love is just catching up about our kids and things. I want to hear a little bit more, if you mind sharing with the crew, like for some of us that have children that take everything literally for for your one son amongst his many sisters.
Speaker 1:What was he doing the other day? I love this. Yeah, so he just he is six years old, yeah, but his mind is very logical and I think it is like a nine or ten year old yeah and he just thinking very concretely oh yeah, for sure. But like he's, also trying to be smarter and better than everyone and, like he's, he's having sarcasm come out, but he doesn't know what sarcasm is. So where we'll be like Judah?
Speaker 1:wait, he's unironically sarcastic, oh for sure, oh, my gosh For sure. So he'll be like we'll be like, hey, judah, stop doing what you're doing, stop everything. And he's like stop what? And we're like, oh, stop doing everything. And so then he just looked at you, or he looked at me, frozen kind of a little turn in blue. I'm like what are you doing? He's like I'm not breathing because you told me to stop everything. So I stopped breathing and I was like okay, Okay. All right, only son that's it man.
Speaker 2:Well, listen, you know his sisters. They're going to make him tough.
Speaker 1:That's it, man, they are, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Well, tell me a little bit, man. One of the things we always want to talk about is what is some of the things that God's showing you in ministry and, like you know, feel free to give us the inside the thing. I know there's been kind of some changing of seasons in the last couple of years of ministry.
Speaker 2:Um, so what? What is, what is the good parts or the successful bits of of what, what's happened in the ministry right now, like what's what's working for you in a way that, like, makes you like this is what we need to be about, um, and just some of those things that really feel like we're getting the return on the, on the energy that we're doing.
Speaker 1:Like. What does that look like right now? Well, I love that you said getting a return, because I think that to answer your first question is like what has God shown me? I think I go straight to the parable of the talents and the idea of like what you have and what you're doing with what you have. And so, being that I had mentioned, we're in a season of a church where we got a new pastor in their year. Yeah, people were a little skeptical.
Speaker 2:The giving isn't necessarily where it was just based off of the our on the heels, on the heels of the last chapter there's a little bit of, I mean, let's say it, rebuilding yeah, to be done, for sure rebuilding of of trust and ministry and program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, being that our first pastor kind of committed a moral failure and had to step out. Yeah. So, uh, our church is just kind of in that like now, attendance stayed up, okay, giving went down, so a little bit of kind of a wait and see.
Speaker 2:You think for some folks, like what is this going to look like? What's coming next?
Speaker 1:okay, so we're on the up and up now. But um, but yeah, speaking of the parable of the talents, I just feel like um doing what I have doing the best that I can with what I've been giving and not saying, like you know what. I only have a bag Like I'm just going to keep it safe. So it doesn't get messed up and just skate by.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I felt like I've tried to invest or or put that my best foot forward to get a good return on on what we do have, and I feel like it has been phenomenal and it's really something that God can't take any credit, because God has kind of motivated me and pushed me in that direction. Um, so that's what I've been doing. I've been just going back to old school youth ministry, super relational.
Speaker 2:Um, I was going to ask so one has that always been true? Do you feel like that's been something that's the crucible of this season, or or two like what are some of the things that it's kind of pushed you to differently, to have, like, we have an established ministry of people but we maybe feel under resourced so we are doing blank because of it? I love that you said old school. Cause that makes me that makes my nineties heart feel good yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, for sure, like I, in my mind, I feel like it has had to make me be a little bit more creative. But like, let's be real, Nothing is new under the sun.
Speaker 1:So, I think really, when I say creative, I just mean like okay, let's just kick it to the basics of like old school evangelism, old school discipleship. I've been hanging out with some of my students who have just been committed and growing, committed to growth and just grown in their relationship with God, and I've recently challenged them to go actually share the gospel like weekly, like tell someone about Jesus and then ask them if they would like to give their life to Christ, and that, just the fruit and the stories that come from that alone is like what.
Speaker 2:There's almost like a directness to it. Right, that's one of those that I think sometimes the not the money gets in the way, but like like the what are we going to build and do gets in the way of. Sometimes the directness of what we need to be doing is that is that kind of what y'all been experiencing or feeling or like oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:I mean in where my mindset was. That was like okay, I want to be able to do all these events that I want to do. I want to get creative.
Speaker 2:Can't rent all the inflatables, so what are?
Speaker 1:we going to do Exactly. So now it's like, okay, well, let's go hang out. And then just this organic hangout with my students has turned into like man, we want to do more, we want to be challenged, we want to be pushed. Okay, well, do this? Want to be challenged? We want to be pushed? Yeah, okay, well, do this. Yeah, um, and they've been doing it and it's been so cool to just see our students go and actually like tell people about jesus and then come back and share. Hey, I shared with my friend and they said, yes, they're gonna come to church now because they're trying to grow in their relationship with I'm like, what is happening right here? Right again, we didn't even do a fifth quarter yeah, again, not new.
Speaker 1:Nothing's new in the sun. But it's just back to the basics, I guess. Yeah, rather than being more creative.
Speaker 2:But do you feel like some of that's a shift in in teenagers also is there? Is there some of that cultural shift of church becomes the place like? This is something that we've been talking about with some of our team is in some places there seems to be a resonance or an excitement when church looks like church I don't know how else to say it that way, but like there's almost like for some, and particularly like young men, when it, when it doesn't get confused by something else, that like church, looks like church, like like preaching, sounds like preaching, like we studied the Bible and we studied the Bible and it's like not gobbled up by all the other, like smoke and mirror stuff or whatever, but it kind of is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I don't know, does that, does that feel cultural? Does that feel contextual? Is that a post COVID, or are we maybe just actually getting to the core of the thing, since some of the other stuff has been kind of stripped away?
Speaker 1:Man, it's tough to answer your question. I genuinely feel like. I feel like I see both sides, and maybe it's because of my age slash, where I am in this generation. But don't get me wrong, a good event is still a good event. It still gets like a good dodgeball yeah. Bring students in a good yeah, something with awesome music, big fun, yes, so like.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely pro that, but I think where I have maybe shifted my mindset is like I want to provide something for everyone. I want every single student to have something that they can participate and engage with, so whether they want to come for fun only and get a little bit of Jesus, great or whether they want to get a lot of Jesus and no fun at all.
Speaker 1:I'm looking personally to provide or hit every area of that spectrum and I think it's possible and I've been pushing to do that more and more. And just to talk about you said a shift, I actually do feel like a shift.
Speaker 2:And this could be unpopular opinion. We're looking for comments, Okay good.
Speaker 1:I think that with just recent studies of Gen Z and just the mentally how they are faring and socially how they're faring, I don't know. I've done a lot of studying and a lot of looking to it and how it affects the youth ministry as a whole, and one thing I did see, which I'm actually shifting our team and our youth ministry to be more, is they are looking more for that like at one-on-one, that like deeper connection, that relational, because they're so like they need it, they need help and they're looking for answers. They're confused with all the media that they have access to. That people are pulling them this way and that way and it's causing their anxiety and depression to keep growing. And I think that what I've learned works is pulling them in a room and saying like, hey, what's going on? Yeah, like how can I help? Yeah, let's, let's meet again next week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's one of the things that we would talk about is I still obviously like there are still influencers that help shape brands and products and like I mean there is grassroots reforms of like you know, this young lady or this young man gets popular and so they endorse. You know these mugs, this, these clothes, whatever. But I think, on the coattails of that is some of the things that we're experiencing now, where, because there are so many voices, there are so many things shaping or influencing, like it can be information overload, which is some of the mental health concerns and anxiety, but I think it creates a real pocket of need for, like directed mentorship. It is the like we have all these apps for fitness, but most of us just want the personal coach. It's like, all right, today we're going to go do legs, and it's like, yes, sir, or like hey, hey, man, like I want. I want to make sure I have like money.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like can you give me money advice? And so like there's this whole call it influence, mentorship, it's. It's by its right name. Hopefully it would even be discipleship, where it's not just life advice, but hopefully it's not discipleship in the sense that it's theological instruction, but it actually is the trajectory of their life, where it is like man, I'm a, I'm a 15 year old dude and I hope to be a dad that has a son and daughters and I hope to have some money to live in a house.
Speaker 2:And what kind of car should I buy? Like how do I save? Or like how do I like get ready for college? These are like real questions that I think sometimes in youth ministry we've been so programmed and slick to the like the thing and the event.
Speaker 2:And hopefully the theology and the Jesus that we didn't get to be, and I think this is some of the thing, the relationally messy enough to be like hey man, this is actually like how you like be a good friend. Yeah, this is how you are a good son, or? A good dad or a good mom or whatever the thing is that just feels real gritty daily I mean, is that?
Speaker 1:is that?
Speaker 2:is that some of the? I guess we're? I think when I hear relational, that's some of the things that I'm like sensing is some of that?
Speaker 1:No, yeah. So I feel like being in ministry now for 11 years. Let's go back 11 years, I feel like, when I was trained and taught and how I saw ministry was how do we throw a large event, get kids saved, offer some sort of program? Something that much for many. Yeah, yeah, but offer something where those kids who get saved can, like now, walk into some sort of discipleship something. But we're still a program, yeah, and it felt very like, okay, well, what do we offer? What do we offer? What do we offer? And?
Speaker 2:it's like can we offer? What do we offer? Oh my gosh, can we offer our relationship?
Speaker 1:yeah, and so that's kind of where. To be honest, when I first started at Riverpoint, I think my mindset was, okay, how do I build a team? Like, how do I structure a team that can run fast, make these big events, look at our programs and what we offer. And in the last year, year and a half, my mindset has shifted more to like how do I create a team that operates more relationally? And so, instead of a team that can handle these events and run fast in these programs, I actually just sent a pitch to my boss that's saying, hey, listen, I want to. Now, I know this is outlandish, this is crazy, but I think the future of youth ministry and where it's going is like can we get a more relational youth ministry where we hire someone, we bring one person full time for every 50 kids? Now, get it. It's crazy, sure, but it's like now, this person, I want you to be connecting with these 50 kids. Of those 50 kids, like be inviting 12 of them over and have the three and then, have the one.
Speaker 1:So almost like constantly pouring into and checking up on kids and like giving spiritual directorship or care. Yeah, yeah, good, just almost having each person on staff be required to be in relationship, not with 50 kids necessarily, but like be checking up on that group of kids well to be relationally over invested yeah, like that's where I think there's a lot of a lot of ministries.
Speaker 2:That and this is again. You can't unwind the clock on some stuff, but I think about growing up in like the church growth movement. For the old heads in the room, like eighties, nineties, it's like dude, you get that. Youth building, you get you know, you go from the youth hallway to the youth room. Yeah, man. We're going to turn that gym into Laser Quest and it's going to be roller skates, it's going to have all this stuff and there's probably going to be a slide. And it was facility facility program program.
Speaker 1:And that was us. That's where we were. It's not wrong.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm here today because we had a whole separate building. There was a little mini skate park, it was like a thing, Because we had dude we had a whole separate building.
Speaker 2:There was like a little mini skate park. It was like a thing. It was like this is for like alternative teenagers that like wore black and listened to metal music and were like into punk and you know the band, whatever. Like there was like the elements that were related to teen culture and relevancy. Dude, some of the best leaders that I've heard people share about are, like the least relevant but they're just really good mentors for the journey of life that these small enough group of students to manage is around for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent, and I feel like that's obviously got us put that on my heart, which is funny Cause, like at my core, I am a relational like I love relationships, I love people. That's how you were introduced to me when Brian introduced me. Yes, last, relational like I love relationships, I love people.
Speaker 2:That's how you were introduced to me when I introduced yes, last time we talked about yeah it was very much relational. Ryan was like this is my buddy jay. He's the most relational guy I know. I want y'all to know each other and I was like where yeah and like.
Speaker 1:But what's funny is like, in my mind I'm like that's now. It's gonna sound crazy, but I was like that's not ministry, like that's just yeah, for fun, that's what I do.
Speaker 2:Like okay, can I ask one relational guy another? Did you try to like push that down for a while. Was there ever like, uh, like, hey, man, you're so relational and you were like, like, but, but I'm working on it or whatever. Like is that? Did you ever? I don't know that.
Speaker 1:I would say or like I don't know that I would say I push it down. Okay, I think I didn't focus on it because I think I thought like that's too easy, yeah, that's natural, like I got to work on, like being someone who can put the best program on it who can offer this in this event, and that can't be awesome.
Speaker 2:It's like a soft compliment or whatever, Like, ah man, he's, he's a nice guy yeah, it's like.
Speaker 1:it's like yeah, you got to be relational Right right, but you're not being judged on that.
Speaker 2:Who's not right?
Speaker 1:People say that I'm like who's not Dude.
Speaker 2:The more I talk to folks, it's not always intuitive. It's not always intuitive, and I think that's one of the things I would shout out to folks that are hearing this, if you've heard the compliment.
Speaker 2:Man you're so relational like, own that badge of honor. And for other folks, if that's not your strength and you hear that and you're like I wish I was that way voice it Because there are some other people that are severely undervaluing, sharing that with others because they don't see it. I assume that everybody thinks like we do. I just assume everybody would do, but that's not always the case and if there is a shift towards this, then relational folks rise up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree 100, I think. If you are out there, please know like god has gifted you, he has put that in you. It's something that I'm having to learn and rewire my mindset to go from like it's actually not about trying to put on the best event or do the offer the best programs in youth ministry, uh, but how many kids can you have that relationship with and check on and love and encourage your team to do that? So that's been my mental shift and again it seems so like basic. I'm sure people are watching this like oh duh.
Speaker 2:Who wouldn't yeah but?
Speaker 1:like again, I think from what I was used to, it was like okay, that's easy. What's hard work for me? And I got to do hard work because I don't want to be the lazy youth pastor Like I got to put these events, put these programs, make services be great, make small groups plan the event. Yeah, All the things and and I'm still doing those things and I still love them, Like I told you in the beginning.
Speaker 1:But yeah but I yeah to more relational ministry, Like I'm. Everyone on my team has held account, but they have a list of kids to reach out to and take them out to dinner, take them out to lunch.
Speaker 2:Obviously, like get the parents on board and do it in the right way, but yeah, yeah, okay, well, tell me a little bit, cause I think this is one of those. It's a connective element from youth ministry program to youth ministry relationship is small groups. People call them by a lot of different names D groups, community groups, Sunday school in some places, but like the, the, the way in which we kind of organize and structure. So you're talking about the overinvestment of staff of the 50 to one, one to 50, but in what way is there a small group structure that exists now at rpc or like, what does that look like? What has it looked like? Or how, how does? How are the smaller clusters of students you talked about middle school and high school camp?
Speaker 2:so there's already some structuring there, yeah, but what is? What is a small group look like in a weekly or annual basis at your church?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I'm gonna say this like and the more youth pastors I talk to, the more I recognize like I am an outlier in this All right Doing it different and I have my reasons, but I get that the comment chat is about to blow up. I like it.
Speaker 2:I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I am not as high on small groups as most. Youth. Ministries are Okay Now, iries are Okay Now. I say that Okay Now, if you ask me, like, do I want a student to be in small group? 100%. Yeah 100%, but I am not. I'm not going to make a student be in small group that doesn't want to be in small group. Okay, just because I've learned that it brings. Can't, can't, make it take yeah now, but here's what I do now. Okay, yeah, yeah, and I get it. It's making, I'm making myself look bad.
Speaker 2:You know, we want to know, yeah, yeah but I, I do.
Speaker 1:I do introduce every student to the idea slash, give them a taste of it, okay, and then they get to make the choice of do you want to continue in this or not?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And through the way we set it up. Now, when I came in to RPC, the small group structure was just up and down. They didn't really have a good structure. They were kind of doing small groups on Wednesday nights, just small groups, okay.
Speaker 2:That was the whole. Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they would meet at the church, break into small groups and no, no message, no service, just small groups. Just show up circle up, yeah. And then, um two weeks after I got there, I believe, they were like hey, that's our last one, but they didn't.
Speaker 2:just, it just wasn't it wasn't value or value at all.
Speaker 1:Now, here's the thing I definitely value small groups, but it's not like I, it's not the end. All be all for me, um it, yeah, to me I. I feel like there's a students who have given their life to Christ and who are looking to grow in their relationship and they're just working on coming to church consistently. Yeah, let me get you to church consistently, yeah. And then I start seeing a hunger and it usually has been them approaching me with some questions of like hey, what the Bible? I've been reading this. Like what does this?
Speaker 2:mean how do I get this answer?
Speaker 1:And I say you know what would be great for you oh my gosh Small group.
Speaker 2:That's where we answer all those questions, using it as the answer instead of the obligation.
Speaker 1:Come on, okay, keep saying more so now those students who show up to small group again their body Unpopular? Oh, 100%, yeah, Like they love it. They are willing to come anytime. We have them on a set time Sunday nights, but they show up and the conversation is so good, so real, so rich Because they're showing up because they want to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they do it for two hours Maybe.
Speaker 1:I didn't say that, oh, okay, yeah, and they do it for two hours, like maybe.
Speaker 2:I didn't say that, oh, they don't, they don't have to you just went from being a like I'm not really about it to like it's the longest thing we do on a weekly basis.
Speaker 1:Well, they don't they're supposed to swerve jay, the old swerve they only they're supposed to be for an hour, but like typically hang around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's our high schoolers, yeah, yeah, I should add that yeah um they, they keep talking, they love it yeah, love it, yeah, and because they want to be there, they want to be there.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So don't get me wrong. Like I've had some trial and error, I've tried to like force everyone to be in it and, yeah, students, just like the students who wanted it weren't talking because the students who didn't want it and it just was it became so tough to manage and I just was like there's got to be a better way. So, again, it's not for all. You say, well, where's the community for those kids who aren't in small group?
Speaker 2:Their community is where they're looking for community, which is in services, before or after that larger ring it's the social circle before it's the small group circle and I think that's one of the things that we can't underplay is that, like, if you go to to a large high school and I'm assuming that Houston has lots of large high school, I'm sure y'all have a mix of folks that are doing, you know, homeschool, christian school, but but if you're at a very large high school, a youth ministry, even, a large one of several hundred students, like it's still a smaller social reality than your school hallways. And so having that that like having that middle ring or whatever because let's, let's be real like a small group with 10 people that you don't know that well unless you get to know them that well, is awkward right or whatever that's that's.
Speaker 2:It's a delicate, especially for students that are saying things like I'm anxious, yeah, I'm socially awkward, yeah, I feel isolated. Yes, they need it very much more, but they're like receptivity to it, like they're not ready. Till they're ready, yeah, okay. So I got to ask the question everybody's going to ask yeah, well, what do you do on Wednesdays now if you don't do small groups? Yeah, you just told us that you got a plan. I'm in, but I got to fill 35 minutes on Wednesday, jay. So what's the new plan?
Speaker 1:We got to have a plan, jay, oh yeah, and also let me go back. So there's 10 large public high schools within 10 miles of my church, okay, so that's how crowded, that's what we're doing so when you're in student ministry, it actually is like they might be known.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a lot. So now again Um. So now again we, we were meeting Wednesdays. We don't meet Wednesdays anymore, we actually do Thursday nights.
Speaker 2:Thursdays.
Speaker 1:Now the other midweek. Yeah, yeah, so we moved back and there's a whole story behind that. Okay, but funny enough.
Speaker 2:Was that like trial and error and then it landed, or yes, do you? I think you're the only person I know doing Thursday? I got friends doing Sunday night. I got friends doing Sunday night. I got friends doing Friday night. I got friends doing Saturday night, thursday, okay.
Speaker 1:So, if you go back to what I said, I try and offer something for like every person wherever they are in their journey with Christ. So the person who's only wants to come to the event, they come to the events. Person who wants to come to services, they come to service. Now the step between small group and our Sunday morning services.
Speaker 1:Which is everybody yeah and let me go back and say this when I first got there, I was trying to make Sunday mornings be like our go deep in the Bible and Wednesday nights be our fun front door. Now it was not working for me and it was hitting my head on the bible and just like please help, lord help lord and I don't know where, how. It just was this. Honestly, the lord was like they need to like switch those. So our front door of our ministry is actually sunday morning.
Speaker 2:Okay, very unique different, okay, okay, and I know there's a lot of youth pastors. Don't try this at home. Yeah, I mean, maybe I don't know, I know.
Speaker 1:And like I get it, I'm being judged so hardcore but come, I will like come to Riverpoint church in Sugar Land.
Speaker 2:Richmond. There's some folks that can mind. Okay, it just works. So Sunday morning is our big front door.
Speaker 1:We do our craziest games, our craziest events, like on Sunday morning, yeah, yeah, and the kids show up in droves.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:They show up.
Speaker 2:They bring friends. Yeah, yes, at 9 am, 10 am, 11 am. 11 is our main service. Okay, yes, at 9 am, 10 am, 11 am.
Speaker 1:11 is our main service. But I'm talking about like it is just insane, and it's the unchurched kids that come on Sunday morning.
Speaker 2:Really Okay. Man, it's wild. I got to go down to Houston and see this sauce. You really do.
Speaker 1:So that's where we do our front door, like big programming, big fun, and then, like that, go deeper. So then naturally I was like okay, well, on Wednesdays I want to try to like have a go deeper, like Bible study break it down service and then break out, maybe do small groups.
Speaker 1:I was trying to figure all that out and we tried so many different things. Where we've landed is actually on Thursday Cause we had. We moved from Wednesday to Thursday Cause our church, our adults started meeting is like I said, it's a whole long story, but uh, so now what we do, again maybe unpopular, but uh, we actually have a large small group discussion, okay, kind of like, and I imagine like it's like a Aristotle Socrates used to sit around and just kind of yeah, yeah, a little amphitheater like yeah, okay so, and it's sort of like ahead of time or kind of impromptu, a little bit of both or a little bit of both Like and it started out with just like a let's see how this goes.
Speaker 1:I actually thought I was going to shut down our midweek. Um, probably a month in, sorry. Before I was like, okay, it's probably gonna be a month, but let. I asked the students and I was thinking like, okay, yeah, it's been like 30, 35 kids Like I think I'm going to shut it down, keep Sundays and figure out something else.
Speaker 1:And I asked all the students and they were like we love this. Please give us something during the midweek. Like we will keep coming. And I was like are y'all sure? Because I think school was about to start last. Yeah, I was like are y'all sure? And they were like please, please, please. And I was like, okay, we'll try another semester. Yeah, we'll see. And uh, and I was like this is what we're gonna do. We're going to talk about tough things and y'all get to come up with the discussion and we'll break it down in the Bible. So it was like why do good things happen to people? The rain falls on the just and the unjust. I want to know both. Yeah, so, like that, like what? Like, uh, what is sanctification? What is, uh, justification, salvation? Like how are all these things different um?
Speaker 2:they're like the burning questions that they have the actual lived burning, question even theology like one-on-one questions.
Speaker 1:So we spent a semester going through that and literally this is the format. On thursdays again, somebody's probably cringing out there. I'm so sorry, but they come in, they hang out for a little bit, uh, and then we come together, we do some sort of like room icebreaker yeah fun or uh, discussion, and then for about 30 minutes we just sit in a room because it's the 35 of us.
Speaker 1:Now we could break up in a small group. But yeah, just like, let's try it. And it has. It has been amazing. Like it. It renewed my faith in the create.
Speaker 1:Like hearing these students talk and then talk to the other. It's. It's produced debates, sparked ideas and thoughts and challenges, and it has been so good like I was blown away and I was like, clearly, god, this is all you, because there's no way I was ready to give up on this and, I kid you not, went from 30 to about 70 in I don't know like eight weeks, and then now we're currently at about 85 students who show up Just packing out, asking questions.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing I actually was like and this sounds crazy, but I was kind of like man. I hope we don't grow past 80, because then we'll have to stop.
Speaker 2:We'll have to do something different. The room.
Speaker 1:We have the space we're using. We're using this loft.
Speaker 2:It just feels good.
Speaker 1:It's like you can get up and go get some coffee and come back Right space, right thing man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of our middle schoolers have started coming, which they're welcome, but they just naturally they come and they're like no, we don't like this, that's not my thing.
Speaker 1:But now, like they're coming. The high schoolers are inviting their friends because they're like you got to come have this discussion. It is so good, so we've had more new people come, like per person, than on Sundays.
Speaker 2:And so again, it's a smaller number. Yeah, but it's just crazy. But it's the reach.
Speaker 1:One bring one, yeah, yeah yeah, and I actually, like I in my mind was like, okay, I can't tell them to bring their friends because, like, once it gets too big we're gonna have to move to a service yeah and it's right at that point, now that this semester coming up.
Speaker 1:I'm like man, I know they want this discussion, yeah, but like and maybe I'm trying to figure out a way to like combine the two. But it's like a big small group, okay. And so then there, obviously, I say, like man, these concepts and these topics, like, I challenge you all to jump into a small group where you can talk about them in a smaller setting and keep going. Now the student comes on Sunday and doesn't care about anything, probably not coming on.
Speaker 2:Thursday Not coming on.
Speaker 1:Thursday not wanting to be in the small group, and I get the miss there. But that's again where now our team is more relational. We're reaching out to them and trying to take those students out, maybe one on two, kind of create our own little mini small group for them throughout the week and checking up on them, and we're trying to hit all the students on our little roster at least once in a semester.
Speaker 2:So which, again, like that, is some of that relational superpower of being real enough to reach out but being systematic enough to be like we will get to each of them over the semester, cause that's one of those.
Speaker 2:I had a conversation with a friend the other day about just how, like I think, so many youth ministry folks get stuck cause they want to try to reach everybody all the time every week, like every week, is a unit or a container, and so I have whatever we're doing, it has to reach everybody this week, as if our lives don't like flow through, or as if small groups, like every small group feels like an episode of TV instead of actually like the season right, like not every single one has to exist different from the others. Like this is like an ongoing. This is like chapters in a book, like it's hey man. Like yes, they're going to be gone a couple weeks because they had a sport or they had a busy season or whatever, but that doesn't mean that like the page doesn't turn and we don't keep staying with them.
Speaker 2:but you have to be structured enough that the relationship isn't just oh, we haven't seen him, so now we do like reactionary. It's that you have to be that, that thoughtful, that plan and that doing.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Tell me more about some of the team stuff, cause that's one of the things people always want to ask is can't do ministry alone, or if we do, there's a real tight lid. So what are some of the ways, especially in some of the things you're talking about, that you have help, get help, ask for help and keep volunteers, other adults, uh, uh, motivated?
Speaker 1:and encouraged, so that it's not just all on you every single week. Yeah, so no, I said the whole 150.
Speaker 2:That's not where we are right now no, no, but again like, but until then, yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're not there. So what are we doing now, exactly so, currently we're with two talents before five.
Speaker 1:What are we doing with two? Yeah, we're past one.
Speaker 2:We're on two before five.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure because right now we're actually like a one to I think it's about a one to a hundred ratio, okay, um of of full-time staff. So, um, and yeah, our team is, in my mind, just kind of like a crippled dog. We're trying.
Speaker 2:We're doing the best we can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just running hard, yeah, doing the best we can. So it's me and I naturally am over 6 through 12 um middle school and high school, just influencing all the program, all the things through that. And I've had a middle school director who was just recently promoted to um being our associate pastor and she is amazing she kills it. Yeah, Um truly just has a heart for students in middle school students specifically that I have never seen like in anyone else.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm willing to do whatever it takes, and I mean whatever it takes. Um, she's had to take a girl, uh and her friends, like 30 minutes away, just to make sure that they got home.
Speaker 2:And I'm like that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So I have her and she kind of focuses on middle school, while I really kind of just focus on high school until we can hire someone to focus on high school. How she focuses on middle school. And then we have a part time guy who, who-time guy, who, who is just trying to figure out if ministry is for him. So he, uh, yeah, and honestly his, he's trying to figure out like what he's doing, um, but he's helped us with just focusing on middle school, helping that way and just kind of thinking through some of our like um, discipleship things and challenges to students. But he himself is very much just someone who thinks that way and we also obviously use him to be relational, because that's kind of the model we're trying to shift to.
Speaker 2:Not there yet, but shifting, Moving towards it yeah, and so we have him.
Speaker 1:We have a coordinator who is really just like. He's like the bread and the butter. She gets things done for us, um, and she's at all our events, services, groups, anything we have like she's there making sure it gets done and and she's like that background player but she's like starting to make more relationships with students, and so she's like, oh my gosh, they're wanting me to show up to things and do things because, again like relational um, so I've challenged her in that way and she's been awesome.
Speaker 1:And then we have an admin who obviously does a lot of our background process because all our youth ministry people can just run run, run, run run across the teaser.
Speaker 2:Good help, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So so we have her, and then we have two interns who are amazing and just in using for relational, uh, but that's where we are. It's about four of us full-time and and, um, we got two interns. That, what are three of us full-time, or? And then the part-time what?
Speaker 2:what are some of the for folks because I do want to come back to this. I think this is where maybe some of the some helpful things you're leading folks, yeah, that maybe aren't as relationally minded as you, what are some of the ways in which you're setting them up for success? So, for some interns that are rolling through that, that love what the ministry is about, they catch the vision. Maybe they are even kind of growing up through it, grew out of it and now they're giving back. Like, what are some of the ways that you coach them in having those conversations of following up people? Like, for maybe some folks that are like hearing what you're saying, um, that they check the box yes, youth ministry is relational, but I need more. Like, what does that look like? Or how do I help others to see it? What are some of the things that you would?
Speaker 1:share? Well, for sure it's. I mean step one obvious answer out there is vision cast and, I think, setting a vision and letting the people know and bringing people on.
Speaker 2:This is what this looks like. Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:But then a practical thing that I use, and a mentor long time ago told me this he was a he was a task oriented person, not a people oriented person. But it's like he said but ministry is people like you gotta be people oriented, yeah, and I was like, oh, but ministry is people like you gotta be people oriented. And I was like, oh, okay. So then I was kind of confused and he was just like, well, one thing that I do for my brain is I make a task to connect with people.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I was like and for whatever reason that clicked. And so what I do practically is I create like a task and like a coaching sheet and I like hold them accountable to like hey who have you connected with.
Speaker 2:These are your people Like? This is your checklist of people this week. Yes, and how many dinners or lunches have you gone to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and almost like having that lingo kind of just be something that's in our staff. Yeah, language and culture.
Speaker 2:Make it part of the work Exactly.
Speaker 1:So that's exactly what we do. Is we um? Obviously our vision cast?
Speaker 1:and setting like, hey, this is who we are, what we're going to do, we're going to be about, and when it comes to, like, doing the work, like are you actually doing the work? By taking the people out and call, holding them to that standard, but showing them what that standard is and then just talking about it step by step? And even our volunteers and the people that we do, like, we invite them to games, we invite them to lunches, they invite students to lunches, they're leading small groups, so they're doing all those things that I've also been taught to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, relationally, um, but I'm just inviting everyone into the process of speaking, into the lives of those students who are mentally struggling more than you know and who need that genuine, yeah, that authentic person in front of them that cares, and it's not so much like, oh, you came to this event, you did that, but it's like man, how are you doing, like, how is your family struggling? How can I encourage you?
Speaker 2:today. That's good. That's good. Well, dude jay, thank you so much for coming to share on the way out. If there's anything, uh, what? What is something that, for this fall, that you are most excited about or looking out for as some of that vision you've set for your team that you would maybe share with other youth ministry friends?
Speaker 1:yeah, man, this fall I am just super excited about um continuing to push my team in a direction and I'm hoping that I get to bring on some more people, um, or just switch some roles around in a different way to like hit that goal a little bit more, a little bit more efficient, effective, faster.
Speaker 2:Keep the people, but tune the goal to what we're about Exactly.
Speaker 1:I naturally like I feel like, when it comes to just youth culture, students are are struggling more internally than ever before, and school a lot of times is like stirring that up. So, as school is about to start back, I'm wanting to connect with students more and just offer um things that can help, and so I'm super excited because we are we. We tested it last fall with a small group, so I'm super excited to be launching this retreat, and this fall retreat is really going to be for our students and what we're going to do or say is hey, um, we want you to come uh, rest, or come um, re-acclimate, re.
Speaker 1:I think we're gonna go with this whole like re-energize refocus this whole reconnect, um with God, and it's not about what God wants to do through you for other people, it's just about what God wants to do through you, in you for you. And so it's just gonna be like this, you and God, like there's gonna be other people there, but like don't, look left and right, look up yeah and just uh, it was so good last year and I'm just excited for all the students that we get to bring in to almost be like the checkpoint in the fall yeah it says like man, I needed that yeah god, thank you so much for letting me step out of the crazy or the normal of school yeah and like reconnect with you and refocus on our relationship, so that's what I'm excited about.
Speaker 2:Something better, something different. I expect nothing less from my friend Jay. So, thank you so much. We will drop all of your connections socials in the, in the, in the chat stuff for folks to connect with you. But, Jay dude, thank you so much for coming to hang out today, man, so glad you invited me.
Speaker 2:So good. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of the Youth Mentor Booster Podcast. If you like what Jay Wynn had to say, make sure to check out the connections and socials below, what they've got going on RPC and how maybe the things that they're doing to renew could help you. I love it. Long small groups on Sunday, midweek on Thursday. Who knew? Check it out below and if you want to learn more, join the Youth Ministry Booster community where you can find out what other youth pastors like you are growing, learning and doing, because you need Connection 2. We'll see you back next week. I'm out.
