Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Redefining Youth Ministry: Rethink Discipleship & Strengthen Parent Ministry
Could You Survive the 1800s? The password is Clifford the Big Red Dog.
Could you hack it in the 1800s armed only with modern knowledge? Wild question, right?
Zac and Chad wrote a book!
This episode kicks off with some fun, lighthearted speculation before we take a deep dive into childhood nostalgia—Dr. Seuss, Clifford the Big Red Dog, and how those early books shaped our love for reading. But this isn't just a trip down memory lane; it’s a special occasion. Chad is back on the Youth Ministry Booster podcast, and we’re celebrating the upcoming release of our new book, Define the Relationship, now available for pre-order!
Beyond the laughs and throwback stories (including why Clifford wasn’t just a dog in our childhood imaginations), we shift gears into something every youth leader needs to hear: the power of partnering with parents. We’ve spent years researching, listening to over a thousand church-going parents, and crafting a framework that helps youth pastors and parents get on the same page. Ministry isn’t just about programming—it’s about creating a culture of discipleship that starts in the home. We break down practical next steps, a six-month plan for parent ministry, and why youth ministries should function as spiritual centers in today’s chaotic world.
As we wrap up, we tackle one of the biggest shifts needed in youth ministry today: moving from event-based models to deep, relational discipleship. It’s a challenge, but it’s necessary for long-term impact. And of course, we can’t end without some excitement—Define the Relationship is here! We’d love for you to read it, rate it, and review it. Your feedback fuels the future of these conversations, and who knows? Maybe some special guests will join us next time.
So grab your headphones, hit play, and let’s dive in! And if you’ve got thoughts, hit us up—we love hearing from you.
A snap, hey, hey, yeah. Today's a very special episode of the Youth Ministry Booster podcast for a number of reasons. Reason number one Chad, you're back Always. And we love it when you're here. Nice of you to stop by. Still knows where to come get a free salad for lunch. Yep, yep, I know we're celebrating today. Yeah, it's celebrations all around today. My guy Number two, I believe this is episode 300. Is it really? I think it is. It's hard to know. We did some special ones. If it's not, it's dang close.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to say because somebody's going to go back and count Really, it may not be a celebration at all for 300.
Speaker 1:It's like we may have missed it. Actually maybe this may be 302, hard to say, hard to say, hard to count. Well, we had some, and then we did some special ones, and then we did some short ones that are like do these count because?
Speaker 2:they're I don't know.
Speaker 1:Anyway, long story short is the third reason we're celebrating today. My friend, do you want to tell them? You want to tell?
Speaker 2:people. Why so? A couple of different ways that you may have found this episode One. You may just be a normal listener to us. We're super excited you're here. Hey, thanks for listening. But there is some specialness that we're pointing to this episode, and so if you got one of our VIP boxes- it's directly here, vib. Very important boxes, but we are talking about the fact that Zach and I are releasing a book that is coming out April the 1st, april the 1st, and that is no joke, no fooling.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that, our illustrious publishing team, for assigning us the April 1st release date.
Speaker 2:What if the joke is on us and there's not a book.
Speaker 1:They had us turn all that in and do all that work and they're like we were never going to publish this we were never going to do. That's okay. I have some ideas how we're going to have fun with it. I'm excited. I may or may not be releasing a graphic edition of the book that's like four-panel cartoon that explains the book.
Speaker 1:So we'll see. We'll see. But yes, chad and I have a book coming out. It's actually available now on AmazonLifeWaycom for pre-order. Define the Relationship and we're going to talk a little bit about parent ministry stuff.
Speaker 2:Man, yeah, All right, so long time coming Before we get into our book. Yes, let's talk books in general Inside the author's studio, because we all know I mean, let's be honest, this book is going to immediately hit the New York Times bestseller list.
Speaker 1:It's already sold out by the time that we announce it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean here's the deal. You, by the time that we announce yeah, yeah, I mean here's the deal You're hearing about it you can't get the book. Okay, it's that popular. You can only wish to hear about getting the book.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:There will be stories of people retelling the stories of the book.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, no, no, I got an early copy that was signed by the wrong person.
Speaker 2:You know Lifeway in general. We make some books, Often actually, but let's talk just broader scope. Oh, You've read.
Speaker 1:You're a reader. What is a book?
Speaker 2:If you're unfamiliar with what a book is let us tell it. No, no. Growing up yes, so not like now. Don't give me the like.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, the highfalutin.
Speaker 2:The shelf behind me that's got 30 books that I have to read this spring. We get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:As a kid. As a kid Because I feel like there's a period of time. You either you enjoy books or maybe you don't, but for you, I know you enjoy books. I do, growing up, what are some of your favorite books?
Speaker 1:Favorite books man as a little kid love all the Dr Seuss stuff. That was so fun. Oh, you're going way back Well so I'm sure you asked the question that we were setting up this morning. I've been trying to think about the ways in which those books have been really meaningful. Okay, dr Seuss, playing with words like that is part of what I like to do, and so, um, playing with words and making normal words really interesting is fun. Um, but man, some of the most formative books. Can I talk?
Speaker 2:real quickly about my little, your little kid books. Yeah, yeah, yeah before you go on, clifford the big red dog. Oh you, you, clifford guy yeah okay, to the point where you know, growing up in the 80s.
Speaker 2:Just love it, just love a big red dog well, growing up in the 80s, you know how people had like kidnap scares. Oh, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, where's this going? So my parents gave me a code word oh, if they were like, oh, if they couldn't pick me up from school and they had to have like somebody from work.
Speaker 1:yes, if uncle was coming to pick you up, what's the magic word? Clifford was our word, clifford, okay, so.
Speaker 2:I just need you to know now, as a 41-year-old man if you roll up and say, clifford, I'm getting in the van, that's a safe word.
Speaker 1:Hey, he's a safe person. Clifford, it sounds like a safe person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, that's good. So clifford the big red dog was the. The phrase that I knew was safe. Just it just emanates trust.
Speaker 1:I know you're not supposed to share that, but I feel like you kind of ruined the word by sharing that the whole world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like the uh, um, the time frame has run out. Okay, yeah, so at this point.
Speaker 1:If you're getting into strange vans hinged on a keyword, it's more on you than yeah I mean, if they got a good enough offer, like what kind of candy are? We talking about, where are we headed?
Speaker 2:okay, so okay growing up growing up what are some others for you uh, so this was a sad one.
Speaker 1:I don't mean to be like that guy, but like where the red fern grows, which? Is that is sad it's so sad but it's like. It's like we had an old dog and like the story of like leading into it like, just the idea of like, like, because I I was, I was like a socially needy kid, and so the idea that like, uh, this, this young kid was just like happy with his two dogs, I longed for that.
Speaker 1:But I had an old cocker spaniel that she just wasn't as fun as old Dan and little Ann and more hunt dogs More hunt dogs yeah. What about you. I know you're just going to take a dramatic turn for that Well, it's not dramatic.
Speaker 2:Did you ever read Hatchet?
Speaker 1:I read Hatchet Love, Gary Paulsen. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Dude so many good books, I think Hatchet. For me at that point in my life it was like, oh, you can do this. Yeah, like it felt like one of the first adventure books. Yeah, yeah, you're also like the idea of this kid. Yeah, just little young Bear Grylls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, just out there doing it, little young.
Speaker 2:Bear Grylls Just out there doing it. Yeah, so Hatchet was awesome Goosebumps. Were you a Goosebumps?
Speaker 1:guy yeah, goosebumps. I watched my boys pass around Wimpy, Kid, dog man, cat Kid comic club books. Like the way that we used to pass around Goosebumps books when it was like not everybody had everyone and the library always had them checked out, so you were just trading with your buddies was like one of those like you're just trading and doing it feels like that says something about our generation, though that as little kids we were just reading like pg horror well, it's why all the the folks today, like all the millennials, love a good crime podcast, right like we just assume that it's gonna to end horribly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, You're like I don't know who killed that lady in the apartment, but have we thought about mannequin dolls Right?
Speaker 1:Like it could be found out. I mean, the murder happened, but we'll figure out who We'll sleuth it together. Okay, so here's the other one I just thought of. I want to know if you've actually read these. There was a series of them. There was like six, seven, eight books, the Great Brain books.
Speaker 2:It was like this little frontier family.
Speaker 1:It was like it was way less dark than boxcar children, which in retrospect a family of kids that like live without adults in a boxcar is.
Speaker 2:There were also a lot of books growing up without parents, right.
Speaker 1:There was, yeah, there was like millennial friends. Millennial friends. Why are we reading so many books where there's no responsible adults around? What is that saying? Uh, but the great brain books were like this, like homesteading family, where it was like two brothers and like one was brian, but they called him brain and he was always coming up with ways to trick the other kids. So, like, like the most notable little, like anecdote, is he because he read, because he was a reader he said I know how to make wood magnetized. And so he was like I'll bet you a nickel, I can make this wood fly back to me. And they were like oh, and so he gets a magnet and a curved piece of wood, runs the magnet over the wood, throws the boomerang and it comes back and he's like shaving nickels off his friends because he's got tricks what a little hustler, that's young hustle culture right there.
Speaker 2:Man respect it if you got dropped into the 1800s, how long you surviving?
Speaker 1:Wait, do I have the knowledge I have now? Or is it just like I wake up and it's the 1800s?
Speaker 2:You have the knowledge you have now but you don't have. Like your technology doesn't work, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're just dropped in there.
Speaker 1:So you're just a street preacher. You're like one day tiny glass screens will talk to us. You just just just to us. Maybe that's all them snake oil salesmen. They were just like future. They're trying to get into it. They're just trying to get ahead of it. Man, they're just trying to get ahead of where we're going. They're like guys. You've had itchy beards for long. Can I tell you the wonders of coconut oil? And they're like we haven't seen a coconut ever and he's like well, that's why you need it.
Speaker 2:It's a witch burning, burning, uh, no, yeah, yeah. So, uh, I don't know where I was going with that. I don't know how to recover from that. You just said homestead. Yeah, yeah in my mind. I was like I could never.
Speaker 1:I mean, do we get access? I mean, if there's like a you know community, well and clean water and a food source, we could probably figure out some kind of trade.
Speaker 2:Oh no, you're dying of dysentery for sure.
Speaker 1:You're not going to roll in as the banker with the frilled sleeves because you've got that fancy math okay, so fast forward out of the 1800s we have written a book we've written a book. Uh, it's still on a printing press on paper digital too, though it's coming back it's coming back so define the relationship.
Speaker 2:You said about parent ministry, not a dating book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to always be careful if you are just randomly searching. Define the relationship and type in higgins are working. There are some other define the relationship books out there, not written by us, but maybe helpful depending on where you are in life.
Speaker 2:Okay, so why? Why the title define the relationship? Does it? I mean, does it carry?
Speaker 1:through. So define the relationship. For us is a framework book, so in partnership with Lifeway Research, so it's research backed, framework writing about the ways in which youth ministry might be done, tilted, inclined to be better suited to partner, serve, work alongside parents and families, and the argument is we maybe have been doing the work in a relationship that wasn't well-defined, like we we are, we are, we are treating it like one thing and maybe other folks are seeing it from a different angle. So call it a miscommunication, call it a efforts in two directions, but I I feel like, after the research that we read, the time that we spent with youth leaders, the time that we spent with parents, that a lot of the interest and the stats are there, the shared interest is there, but the methodology hasn't been defined enough to put these two ships in the same direction.
Speaker 2:So you talked a little bit about it being a research-driven book, and so I will say and kudos to our research team.
Speaker 1:This very best, the very best.
Speaker 2:This is not like a small project. This wasn't like um, we put out a Facebook post and 13 people responded. Got some comments back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So over a thousand parents um were, uh, uh, studied, uh, so over 1,000 parents were studied, church-going parents.
Speaker 1:Correct, so we'll talk about that in a minute because that is one of the pieces of the research that I think may surprise some folks. Until you hear the qualifying it was 1,100 church-going parents.
Speaker 2:Yes. And then also 1,000 youth workers yes, the vast majority of them being full-time youth pastors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or serving specifically in a youth ministry leadership role? Yep.
Speaker 2:And so there was basically a group of over 2,000 people that were researched for this project, half and half being parents and then half being youth workers themselves, half and half being parents and then half being youth workers themselves. And so, even from the very beginning, we begin to ask the question specifically about expectation relationship between youth workers and parents. What do you all want from each other?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what is expectation? Because I think, as we start to begin to talk about better parent ministry or building family ministry or discipleship inside of your church, we have to really ask some of those key questions of what's the expectation? Right? If one side of this relationship thinks that the other side is wanting something completely different, then we may both get to the point where we're like, yeah, we're doing this and we shake our heads but it's actually not happening.
Speaker 1:We're both frustrated by what the other party is doing or not doing, because what we hope they would be doing was not defined or clarified enough. And that and that is that is one of the things that we we name a lot in the book is that there is strong interest from both parties parents and youth leaders and strong effort, again, because it's church going parents, because it's active youth leaders. There is not a lack, there's not, there's not an apathy. I think that's one of the things had this study been done more of like parents at a national average, or involvement of teens in church across the country. We are talking about those that are church going once, twice, four times a month, and so this is not like a I don't care at all. The question is month, and so this is not like a I don't care at all. The question is how do we align the efforts? And I think a lot of that energy is the ways in which the youth leader positions their work and rightly communicates with the parent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so this is a research book. It's very boring, right, zach?
Speaker 1:We don't put any humor or story any of our own personality in this book.
Speaker 2:So it's just graph after graph.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we actually said do do less graphics, like give us more data points. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, so we, we add. We add a lot of our, our story. You definitely feel, uh, hopefully, that you get a sense of who we are, uh, inside of this book as well, but we wanted to represent the research really, really well. I will say, one of the things that I'm super excited about in this book is, in each of the chapters, we wanted to not only be descriptive but actually give application of like okay, if we're going to talk about a relationship here, maybe here are some of the key relationships to make this thing work.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, redefining those relationships. I think, that's one of the things. Youth ministers are working hard, but maybe is there a way to wear a different hat than you have worn that lines up better to serve parents where they're at presently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and that's some of the things I love too in the book of talking about okay, here's the conversation that we encourage you to have with your senior leadership, here's the conversation that we have that we encourage you to have with some key parents and some actual like application. So that's one of the things that I'm really excited about of the book that it's more than just theory or ideas but, like, here's some practical steps for you to actually take.
Speaker 1:Every chapter has. So the two things that I think is the reason to pick up the book. The stat stuff is very helpful, very good, but every chapter has a defining conversation. And then you did good work to give us actual, a runway, six, six month plan of parent ministry, like, like if you were going to start at a church. Now here's the runway plan to move things forward, to move the needle. That's the very, the very end of the book. So yeah, I think that's one of the things that I love is that, like the the stats are helpful, the Like the stats are helpful, the stories are fun. But like those defining conversations and that runway plan of like here's how to begin to do and implement is really, really powerful.
Speaker 2:So what's your favor? What are you excited about? What are you like? I mean, we're done. Now it's written turned in Like what are you? What are you happy with?
Speaker 1:I'm really hopeful and that's that's a. We use that word on purpose because that's how it's going to play out. When we're at conferences this spring, we're going to talk about the ways in which we're hopeful about student ministry, parent ministry, and one of the things that this research affirms is that youth ministry is still really valuable to the church going family. I think one of the ways in which youth ministry stands to do well in 2025, in a busy culture and a busy climate, will be identifying correctly the ways in which they actually do serve the family. So one of the things that we do along the way is give those.
Speaker 1:Here's how I would imagine your relationship to parents. Here's how you imagine your relationship to, because I think that's where a lot of folks are stuck. They're doing the work that they have done, but they haven't conceptualized the ways in which they exist or the family like the, the youth ministry as entertainment and social club and extracurricular. That was really important in a pre-internet, pre-cell phone, pre-social media, pre-busy age. We talked about this with so many youth pastors across this table that the youth ministry they grew up in, that's where they met friends, because after school it was either after school, clubs, the mall or church. It was a social center. One of the things that I think is really helpful, if we will identify it correctly, is the ways in which church is a spiritual center, like we were socializing with hope to be spiritual, and I think the shift, the grand shift in student ministry, young adult ministry, is the ways in which the church is a spiritual center that socializes. It's good man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really thrilled, okay, so here's my next final question for you. It's done, it's done, can't undo, and we always really want to be honest on here. Yeah, or at least I do. I know you don't, but we can rewind the clock. Yeah, what's something that you would tell yourself now, before we started this project, could be encouragement, warning, like what do you? The honest, the real answer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I would have started doing some of the things. I would. I would have pushed harder in my local church to like begin doing some of the, the ideas, um, not just as like the we we play, we play researcher, I mean, we, we talk a lot. That we're kind of we always do ministry in the aggregate. We travel around, we talk to folks, we like collect stories, which is one of the ways in which we want to reposition youth ministry is to be far more journalistic than it's been.
Speaker 1:But one of the things is, I think, pressing in on pressing in on the ways in which my family we're church going. Like I grew up in a church going family we go to church every week, that we can churchgoing family. We go to church every week, that that we can um, and so just like kind of announcing that more living into that more, because I think that's the big shift is, instead of planning things out for the busy family, is aligning what you do in light of their business. And I think the modeling, it's the modeling, the modeling stuff, because I got a fourth grader, I mean we're knocking on the door of middle school, yeah, and so.
Speaker 2:For me. I felt unbelievably insecure, like in a good way it stretched me.
Speaker 1:But like you don't. I mean we've written so many blogs and stuff like that over the years. There's so much written content out there but the binding.
Speaker 2:But when you sit down and use you know, it's like when you're writing a paper for school. Yeah, that very beginning is always like just a blank sheet and that like cursor blinking and I I think for me sitting down writing something like that, you're just like what do I, where do I start and how do we go about it? And I think having the research was really helpful.
Speaker 1:Um, that made me feel more confident because, it was, there was another leg to stand on, like that's what I think, that's I felt. I mean, if anything, I felt the, the felt the task of being true to the research because our team had worked hard to produce it, and yet, also by them producing it, I felt confident of what we were asserting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this thing for me, I think, when it comes to at-home discipleship, this is an area that the church we've got to get better at.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we've got to realize that this isn't an easy like one program fix all. And I think that's probably where we failed a little bit in that, like we've tried things, we feel like it hasn't worked, yeah. And then there's been this like why give up?
Speaker 1:yeah and or I tried it for a while. It didn't work. I moved on like that, that is, it's in the book. Everybody that reads this, I think, is going to be sympathetic of, like, we, I have tried something. And then the follow-up question of but for how long? Yeah, is the actual like, like, really critical question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because what we're talking about especially when we start to talk about our own disarmament like we need to understand and, to be very honest, look at this generationally of it being something that we all collectively say as the church, we believe this is mandate from scripture, and so we have got to lead and challenge our families to take up this mantle and begin to live it out. And so I'm excited, I I can't wait for april 1st to come out, do you, do you?
Speaker 1:think you think that's probably the. What do you think the biggest challenge of those that read the book will be is to is to not take it lightly and and try something for a few months.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's the actual work is to is to not take it lightly and and try something for a few months. Do you think that's the actual work is to take it to hard enough to actually pivot, and when you like so. So for folks that don't know, one of the things that we talk a lot about in our relationship and ministry and doing things together, we actually look back. I share this as okay. We look back through the history of what we have accomplished together, not by what we did, but when we pivoted. Sure, and that is one of the things that I, the more I have read and reread our edits for things. The stuff we present is fine. You're going to read it, You're going to like it. Ah, it's good. Those boys do a good job, but to take it to heart is actually going to require a pivot, Sure, do you feel like that's probably the greatest challenge that the book presents, or I.
Speaker 2:I think the hardest thing about any pivot Is the humility to change course. For us and for anybody willing to pivot, yeah, like the humility to go. Maybe I could do this different, because I haven't done it. The best is not necessarily even something that, like I would say, the book gives them this like magical roadmap. But it would say, the book gives them this like magical roadmap, but it requires you to be introspective of what am I actually doing and how do we take steps forward. And so the pivot in this for anybody is the opportunity to actually examine where they are and ask the questions, not just hypothetically about parent ministry, but practically where the Jones's family at, yeah, how do I help the Martins? Yeah, and and really stop trying to look at everything programmatically.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And start looking at discipleship the way it was intended of relationally, and that requires you and I and anyone wanting to do ministry well, of not making it about ourself, and that's really, really hard. Um and so, yeah, I I think a pivot is a great word to think about, taking something like this and asking ourself what is next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's a chance to redefine the relationship. You can catch the book. Uh comes out april 1st. Uh, lifewaycom, amazon for pre-orders either place. We'd love to have you and if you are getting this in a special way, thanks for being a friend. We try to send out as many as we could to our friends that we could, but for folks that have been podcast listeners, please check it out. Chad and I put a lot of friendship, blood, sweat, tears into writing and doing it. It would mean the world if you checked it out, and it would mean the world even more if you were a listener to check out the book and then, like you guys are so good to do, give a rating and review for the book as well. We hope it's helpful. Uh, send us some love. You can email chadhiggins at lifewaycom or zachworkin at lifewaycom. We'd love to hear from you. Uh, but much love. It comes out here in a little bit and we're going to be talking about it maybe with some special guests and stuff too.
Speaker 2:So until then, we'll see you soon snap talking about it, maybe with some special guests and stuff too. So until then, we'll see you soon.
