Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Mentorship and Youth Ministry: Why We Need More *Tough Love w/ Daniel Kim
Youth ministry is relational work. The work isn't not quality time but quality time. Relationships that are growing are resilient.
🚨SPECIAL GUEST ALERT
Daniel Kim
dkim@gospelife.com
Daniel__Tokyo
Youth ministry flourishes when leaders invest in relationships, mentorship, and personal growth. In this episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast, we sit down with a young pastor Daniel Kim navigating cultural challenges and discovering how mentorship shapes resilient leaders. Whether you're a seasoned youth minister or just starting, this conversation will equip you with insights to deepen connections and lead with impact.
🔥 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ Why mentorship is the backbone of effective youth ministry
✅ How strong relationships create lasting faith in students
✅ Personal growth and embracing faith through leadership challenges
✅ Lessons from Chicago’s diverse ministry landscape
✅ The unique challenges faced by international youth ministers
✅ Practical ways to build community and develop future leaders
Join us as we explore how mentorship fuels leadership, strengthens ministry, and helps you navigate the complexities of youth ministry with resilience and purpose.
🔔 Subscribe now and don't miss a weekly drop!
A snap everybody hello, hello, hello.
Speaker 2:Thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 1:Excited to be at tulsa, oklahoma today dude uh, how are you liking snowy tulsa late at night? My man, like you know man. Uh, maybe not what you signed up for well.
Speaker 2:I mean, coming from chicago, we believe in 2020 rule, but oh, yeah, yeah, I would say oklahoma, people are a little soft, but it's okay, I feel good about myself.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm gonna say I do, I do, I do love you were here. So we told the folks last couple of weeks that we've had some of our favorite young leaders in youth ministry. We're hanging out, we're talking about some of the things that are next the conversations in ministry, but we're here at the house hanging out and got the text that school is canceled and all of the northern guys are like what do you mean?
Speaker 2:It's not even sticking to the ground yet. Chicago people are a little more tough. I would say You're a little more ready, You're a little more prepared for it. Ready to make it happen.
Speaker 1:Well, Dan, we are so excited to have you today, Songyo excited to have you today.
Speaker 2:It's my legal name. Guys, it's my legal name.
Speaker 1:But to talk a little bit about youth ministry, but I think also some of the things just related to ministering in the city, ministering as a young person, ministering in a college town, some of the things that I love about both your story of growing up and following the Lord and serving in the church, but also like this unique spot that you're in. That's like a major city next to a major Christian university with some major opportunities and just kind of what has kind of been laid before you, and so before we get into, I would love to hear a little bit more of your story. I want to hear a little bit like what about Chicago? Do you love Cause you, you wound up in Chicago, I think for a lot of folks. We're going to be in Chicago for Youth Pasture Summit. What are your favorite things about the Windy?
Speaker 2:City. You know, man, I love Chicago for many reasons. It's not the weather, okay, In spite of the weather.
Speaker 1:In spite of the weather, he still persists. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I would say as a guy coming from overseas, I'll share more about it. I was born in Korea, raised in Japan. Just seeing just diversity of people and the culture that's represented yeah right, like in the city and also even the suburbs. I would say that's like such a beautiful part where you just get to go to so many churches, and it's just what heaven would look like. Yeah, and I think that's just the beauty of being in chicago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah well, and I think it's got to be in some ways. Uh, paints pictures for creativity, absolutely paints pictures for, maybe, innovation, but again, yeah, the the beauty of the diversity of the ways in which folks are gathered, like it's just hard to like. You can't really manufacture that like you have to find it or discover it, and so, uh, tell me a little because you're serving at grace, uh yeah. So tell me a little bit because you're serving at Grace, yeah, so tell me a little bit about the church.
Speaker 1:How did you end up there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so right now I'm serving at church Gospel Life in Carroll Stream. We actually have three campuses, so I kind of oversee all student ministry at Gospel Life right now. I actually was born in South Korea, raised in Japan and I went to undergrad at Kansas State.
Speaker 1:University. Okay, yeah, tell us, sorry, I'm going a little, I'm going a little before that I want to know, yeah, how does a young man From Japan End up at Kansas State, right Like Toto? We are in Kansas, that's right. Yeah, how?
Speaker 2:Well, man, just to be honest. Well, I went to English school Growing up, right. So Graduated I school growing up right, so graduated. I was not a good studio student. Um, yeah, but did you go to?
Speaker 1:kansas. Like there's nothing in kansas. Well, yeah, of all the states, it did have 99 acceptance rate. Oh, okay, okay. So it was the cheapest out-of-state tuition. So my dad was like hey, that's probably the only school you can go strike a deal okay, go wildcats.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I loved it, man, I loved it I think the people and the hospitality of the Midwest people. I mean you would know it in Tulsa, right, there's just something different about that and I've always kind of I feel like I was always a little bit too extrovert for the Japanese culture. I kind of almost felt like I came home in Manhattan so yeah, I mean nothing. No, really crazy reason behind why I went to K-State it was just easy to get in and loved every moment there. A lot of great friends.
Speaker 1:Came to study what brought you.
Speaker 2:I changed my major like 12 times Nice.
Speaker 1:But I think I was busy. I remember that was my major Love it I think it was 2017.
Speaker 2:I watched a movie called Crazy Rich Asian. Oh, okay, yeah. And, and my friend, I was motivated, I'll get a degree and I'll fly to singapore other people saw rom-com.
Speaker 1:You saw motivation. Yeah, yeah, yes, that'll be me. Yeah, let's do that, let's do that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, john, yeah yeah and then um, but you know, uh, in 2019 I was in new jersey visiting my aunt she lives in new jersey pal park and and I got saved that was just like a moment where I encountered the Lord. My life just transformed.
Speaker 1:So that's like late teen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I think I was 21, 22 or something like that.
Speaker 1:What happened in Pell Park. What was the what then? Like I mean, was your family grow up Christian, not Christian?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my dad was an elder, but faith was never my thing.
Speaker 1:I was never into it.
Speaker 2:It was my dad's thing, not really my thing, nothing dramatic, it was just not for me. Yeah Right, and one of the spring break my buddy and I visited Chicago, which is crazy because I'm now at You're there, man.
Speaker 1:That's it, yeah.
Speaker 2:At the school called Wheaton College. Right, it was a Christian school Now. Actually, my church right now is like five minutes away from me in college now and I went to visit there and one of my best friends from Chicago. He was attending there and me and my buddy visiting from state school. We were like hey, like why are you still going to Wheaton College? He's like I love it here. And one of the day he said, hey, daniel, I can't do something at 10 am because I have to go to chapel, and my buddy and I just froze and we looked at him.
Speaker 2:We're like man well, yeah, yeah chapel like bro, this is not a Christian private high school anymore. What?
Speaker 1:are you doing and?
Speaker 2:I just made fun of it.
Speaker 1:You're 20, you're free. I know.
Speaker 2:I'm like what are you doing? And then, um, he looked at me, said this one sentence that I just could not forget. It was like hey, daniel, I think there's something more in life than you imagine. And he just said it so nonchalantly, he was laughing and just this question just never, you know, stayed away from my head for six months, right, yeah, and that that was a summer. And then that summer I was like wanting to wrestle with this question of something more, something more. And then remember that my dad, my mom, they were devoted christians. So first time in five to six years, I was like you know, let's try to try to church.
Speaker 1:So I went to my.
Speaker 2:Google. I looked up Korean church near me. There was one 2.1 mile away. Yeah, I put on my well no AirPods back then, so it was like my string headphones. I walked two miles to a Korean church and I heard the gospel and the rest is history. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Dude that's pretty cool. Again the testimony of a friend the positive peer pressure and the importance of local churches being Google listed I mean that's the postmodern parable right, I agree, man, it's one of those, absolutely. It's the friend called out something in you that you needed to hear, and the local church was accessible in a way which we needed to find.
Speaker 2:Right. Okay, young Spurgeon what was preached that day?
Speaker 1:What was the?
Speaker 2:message Do you remember? Well, I remember it, it was actually—.
Speaker 1:Little kids never remember, but you were 21, so maybe you remember. Well, to be fair, it was a Korean church, all right.
Speaker 2:So it was actually—I got saved in Korean, my friend, yeah, yeah, that's good, that's good. I think it was Ananias and Sapphira.
Speaker 2:It was a story of that, but I think at the end there was just such a clear gospel message of how God wants every single piece of us and for me it was more like during the response moment, just kind of picturing God, Just like there's a story of a prodigal son, Him just standing, embracing, being in my hardest moments, when I was indifferent. That was just such a beautiful moment and you know and I, my life changed after that day. That's amazing, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay. Well, so that that gets us up a little bit. How do you go from young, new believer, young believer, Daniel 21, to ending up serving at a church. What was the? What was the journey there Got?
Speaker 2:saved. And then God saved my life, um, and then it was 29, 2018. And then I went back to K state. I was almost done with my study and during those six months, like it's just hard to express my in words, but like, and there's just so much desire for me to study God's word and I was like man, like I feel like there's something more in my life that became your study.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that was a moment where I got the internal calling. I wouldn't say calling as a pastor, it was internal calling for me to go and study in depth, with the word.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I call my friend because remember my friend, we in college who helped me to get to know there's something more to your life. There's something more to this book. Yeah, I like this, this friend. We're going to come back to this friend again. We will, we will, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he introduced me to a school called Moody Bible in Chicago. He said hey, there's a school that uh, you know that's affordable for Christian education. You should look into it. And you know, I looked into it, I loved it and after six months I prayed about it. And um is not what you have imagined, but I think I want to transfer the moody bible to just study. Yeah, I don't know if it's missionary, pastor, teacher. I don't know what it is, but I think god is stirring my heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they were upset, they were like you know or like no, just just graduate, get a job and maybe go to seminary later. Yeah, but you know, god was making it so evident in my life of like he was just pushing me out of k-state and saying go, start um your college again in Chicago. But then I had to start as a freshman again, which was a concern of my parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Or is it a setback? Are we starting over instead of finishing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was just so evident. And then I remember, like a week later my dad calls me and he said hey, if the Lord tells you to go, you gotta go. And I packed my bag and I went back to chicago, illinois, with two suitcases. No friends, no connection, no cousins.
Speaker 1:I'm international student right and um, yeah, just drop dropping bags in the dorms, just ready to go?
Speaker 2:yeah I still. I still get choked up when I go to o'hare airport. I'm like man I remember how I got it, like I remember how I got to o'hare in 2019 so yeah, and then I started college again as a freshman and, yeah, kind of stuck around.
Speaker 1:College as a freshman, again just in time for COVID too, that's right, I was a COVID grad here, for sure. Yeah, yeah Like that's, that's one of the parts again like that, I mean almost like monastic for you in some ways of like, like, literally like the call to study at a new school during a very difficult season.
Speaker 1:What are some of the things that you think God has done and is continuing to like produce out of you because of that Like are you seeing? I mean, maybe that was a necessary thing then, but is there even more fruit from that now? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I would say the biggest word is resilience.
Speaker 1:And also.
Speaker 2:I mean it sounds vague and you know cliche, but I think it's resilience and faith Right.
Speaker 2:And whenever I read the book of Genesis, just the fact that Abraham had to leave just because God simply told him to leave and I really lived that life Right and it was scary, but and because I was able to make those hard decisions. Now I get to reflect on what God has done in my life. Even in the hard moments, when I'm like man I'm not understanding this. In my job and personal life, I always go back to those moments like man, like when I was still obedient. He has given me every single thing that I need in my life. So it's a beautiful. Yeah, it was hard, don't get me wrong, it was really really hard. Yeah, and I can go more about it.
Speaker 1:And but, um, that's such a powerful way to talk about it, cause I think for so many folks, faith is just a really spiritual way to say patience. Yeah, but what I heard you say was that is also a really important way to say provision that God will also provide A hundred percent Cause. I think for so many folks faith is like well, we'll just, we'll hang around until something else happens, but we'll stay busy in the meantime and lose sight of the actual the thing like whatever we've been called to do.
Speaker 1:The depth the study, and so that's powerful man. Tell me a little bit more what life at Moody was like, not to like you know, pedestal or criticize or whatever, but like I just want to know again there's several parts's, several parts of your life that are are uh, we, we kind of talked about third culture stuff, but but public public school in Kansas to Christian Bible school in Chicago Go.
Speaker 2:Man, I know this is a safe space with my fellow youth pastors.
Speaker 1:What's the? What's the? Is that how much culture clash Like a little bit, not a lot, or unexpected. It was very unexpected.
Speaker 2:Well, at Kansas State I was actually also in a fraternity.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was really living out the extreme way of secular life and then God, full college experience.
Speaker 1:God drastically changed my life. Which Full college experience Got dressed changed my life, which is great.
Speaker 2:I have to go to one of the smallest school. Yes, yes, in the middle of Chicago without any friends so it was hard, man.
Speaker 1:Also again Manhattan, kansas, which is nothing but K-State Right, and then Moody Bible, which is like the smallest one of so many schools and one of our most major cities and I'm like have to get used to it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was, and again also. At the same time, I'm also an international student.
Speaker 2:So it's like woo Trying to get used to this country and now it's a different city. So you know it was hard. I think I struggle making friends, I would say for a semester, to be honest with you, but time where I got to connect with church. What's beautiful about Moody is not only about the student life. They really encourage the students to get plugged into church and that time I got plugged into immigrant church because I got saved in a Korean church setting and I decided to immerse myself.
Speaker 1:Did you look for another Korean church when? You were looking for churches, or were you just kind of open to whatever you found? I?
Speaker 2:think I was open to, but then it happened to end in a Korean church. So I was there for a couple of years actually before coming to gospel life, um, but yeah, I mean I love my life and mood. I loved how they were so practical, um, in teaching those curriculums and uh studies that would actually work in practical settings and ministry Right. So those are really helpful. Um, and then I also did a one year extra study at Wheaton college too.
Speaker 2:So, that was really helpful as well, which kind of got me to stick around in chicagoland, yeah, but I I would say man, like one of the thing that um distinguished me and some other college students in ministry is like during college days I was just serving and just getting a lot of great opportunities and reps while studying in college because moody was so supportive and having practical experiences over the education. So those are such a good like opportunity, I'd say in chicago. Was that? Is that something that they uh promoted, encouraged or just made space for experiences over the education? So those are such a good opportunity, I'd say, in Chicago.
Speaker 1:Is that something that they promoted, encouraged or just made space for? I think that's one of the questions maybe to even ask you on this side of ministering. As a young man in college international student, what are some of the ways in which both the local church could or should be more considerate of connecting, supporting, creating community for both international students but also ministry students?
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I say that with high personal interest, being neighbor to a couple different Christian schools and one of them in particular, being very globalized, like how do we do a better job? How has it done well? How do we do a better job? How has it done well, how do we do a better job, right, okay, I think that's one of the things that the church, I mean, could be a blessing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I see two ways. One is a school's way of. One thing that I think Moody did really well is this thing called practical Christian ministry. So every single student, from freshman until senior, you're required every week to spend two hours in a practical ministry setting. Okay, meaning it could be in a church, it could be in a nonprofit.
Speaker 2:It could be in an education related, but you have to serve in a volunteer setting that's related to your major. If it's youth men, you're doing a youth internship, okay, so I love that. It's like and it was mandatory. You had to log those hours and, like you know, we were actually fined if we didn't log it. No excuses.
Speaker 2:Yes, right you got to do it. You got to do it. All the hard work, um. But when it comes to church side man, I would say I just love those robust residency and internship programs and churches, and I know this sounds very cliche and my, my dream and my vision of when people ask me hey, daniel, like, why, like, like, why are you in ministry, like all these things like that. Obviously it's because god has called me. But I also have this little vision and hope that man, as an international student, as a third culture kid, I just want to be a pioneer who paved the way where international student was not afraid to step out of their comfort zone and if there are more opportunities from bigger churches, small churches, whatever church setting, if they are able to spend maybe two or three hours with this young, you know, maybe english, second language kids, sometimes coming through, yeah, and just really develop them, spend time with them and just really pour into them. I just want more daniel kim's yeah, in the.
Speaker 2:So, and I just and as the, as the society and this country gets more diverse, especially in a big city like that, I just really want to see more ethnic leaders like myself, just you know, push through and pioneer ways to advance the kingdom of God.
Speaker 1:Well, create those spaces, build those bridges, cause I think that is again, this is for every church in America that wishes they had more opportunity for college and young adult students. That may surprise them where it comes from, and I also think for so many of our teenagers and this is maybe some of the other part of the conversation, I mean at least again living here in Oklahoma, serving in North Carolina, texas there is a lot of like third culture kids that may either be, I mean for Oklahoma, texas, there's a lot of Hispanic students who they are playing both the role of interpreter at home and then also trying to figure out who they are in the mix.
Speaker 1:And so Tulsa proper, we've got a large group of uh Burmese refugees that have, like the, the Jenks high schools, like I, like the third uh largest ethnic group or fourth largest ethnic group in Jenks high school is actually like Zomi, so it's Burmese Uh, and so like, like the ways in which that culture has impacted, even in a public school and even in a community, matters to our local churches, Like we actually have uh Zomi Baptist churches in Jinx, America or whatever.
Speaker 1:And it's one of those like like wait, you know, but that's. But that's one of the things to know is that, like, even in suburban areas, there is pockets of diversification that may be partners in ministry, um, but also like families and connection and community to be more aware of in the ways in which they are, in the lives of youth ministry in particular, because that that is one of the places and we see it really notably, at least in the places that I've been.
Speaker 1:It's the, the kid who, whose parents may be your first gen, and their second gen right right and so they're having to be that person that, like they, they speak english at school and then maybe they go to church with mom and dad, um, who they worship in a different language, right, yeah? And I like I have a friend that like the way in which she, kind of like, painted that picture to me of, like I am literally one language at school and one language at home.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But having to choose what language I worship in, and so I would love to ask you like do you ever have moments where, like you sing, so I get like did they ever jump, like English, to Korean or Japanese?
Speaker 2:What is, what does that look like? It's so funny.
Speaker 1:Like what, what, what Korean or Japanese? What does that look like? It's so funny. What language or voice or song does God sing over you?
Speaker 2:Is it all? Believe it or not? When I pray, it's always in Korean.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:At church, when I'm in a pulpit, I say English, your heart language, head language. Prayer as well. My personal prayer like that as well, even when I do my sermon prep. Okay, even with the American curriculum. I open the Korean Bible first.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I think it's just the.
Speaker 2:Korean side of me, because you know, I only lived there five years, if you think about it. But just, I don't know, it's just I think. First language, yeah, but um, I, I just think, um, and I love how you said about the second gen.
Speaker 2:Like there are so many kids and families where at school you're american and you go home and you are spanish, korean, chinese or you know whatever um, and there's definitely difficulty in that, but at the same time it's just also beautiful that you know the word of god is now translated into many many different languages.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just think there's so much beauty in that. And whenever I think to myself God, why did you give me this unique gift of having three different languages? What I'm thinking is, man, I want to be the 300% person to be able to preach in three different languages one day. Yeah, I just always try to think positive and try to be a pioneer and help all the second gens to just hear the gospel in many different ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Is there? Is there any word of encouragement you'd give to a youth pastor? That maybe? Has some students that are that are maybe there isn't, maybe their church is trying to sort it out and figure it out but maybe there is a grouping of of third culture kids that whether it's Spanish, Chinese, Korean, like how can we better serve them, encourage them? What's a word that you would give a youth pastor trying to do right by them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as a guy who was serving as a youth intern, even at an immigrant church, I really understand the pain of what it's like to pastor the kids or third culture or second gen or even kids who don't speak English. But I think my words of encouragement is man. Like when I was a teenager um, I had to go to church sometimes. And there's this like one English guy and I didn't speak any English back then.
Speaker 1:It was just. It was just not that good.
Speaker 2:Right, and there's this guy who was always so patient, he was always so kind, he always prayed over me and sure the connection wasn't there. He probably thought I was not warm, he probably thought I was cold, but man, I just felt the love and genuine care from this man. So I just want other youth pastors to experience and know the fact that, hey, it's not just always a language barrier, or even the cultural barrier, like, hey, like God's love always surpasses that. So you know, keep pastoring them, keep loving them, keep praying for them, like they are going to know and it's going to make difference in their life.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah Well, I want to bring your friend back up, because one of the things that we're going to talk about is mentorship and just some of the people that God brings along our way, and so.
Speaker 1:I want to open to you and just kind of hear what some of the things that have been kind of passionate for you because part of how we got connected and some of the conversations and some of the things that just drive the ways in which we keep up with each other have been kind of mentoring questions. Who are some of the people along the way that have been those mentors?
Speaker 1:those key questions, those key moments that maybe you didn't even know you were looking for, that found you, but what has mentorship looked like in your growing Because again that's part of the unique situation of maybe growing up and knowing stories of faith and scripture, but Jesus becoming real, like being saved just in the last few years, Like what is? What is that created a need for?
Speaker 2:and how has mentoring been a part of that? 100 yeah, absolutely. Um.
Speaker 2:So I think I should kind of go back to the um years of moody so after serving an immigrant church for a couple years, being a moody for a year, um two and a half years later, after serving immigrant church, um, I left the immigrant church really hoping to like, learn and grow and, um, I'd apply to gospel life church there at an opening at student pastor position and I heard about it met the pastors, everything went great right and I? Um had a final interview with the family, with the parents, and then, uh, I left the meeting. Now, waiting for my contract and seeing when I'm gonna start, my executive pastor calls me to my um, to his office and say hey, I just talked to the parents, we just don't think you're the right candidate oh, okay it was like getting punched right in the nose.
Speaker 1:But you're like but I killed it back there. It was so I know, right, I was like whoa, what do you?
Speaker 2:mean, like I have a bachelor's degree, I have a master's degree, like man, like I feel like yeah, yeah yeah and um, yeah, man, and then it was. It was really tough. And the day after, um the other other campus pastors his name is Pastor Austin, he he called me to his coffee shop and like it was like the hardest conversation of like hey, like I see the biggest potential in you, but you're not there yet.
Speaker 2:But come join as an intern or whatever the resident like we will develop you to become a young young, sharp leader, okay, and um, by the way, this was 25 year old man who needed a full-time job, yeah, yeah, who had the degrees that everyone you're like actually I have school debt, so let's see yeah, no.
Speaker 2:But then, like I went home and I just called my dad and I said, hey, dad, like um, I I thought this, this whole job thing fell through and do I just look for a new job? Or this church, they're willing to pour into me, they're willing to develop me. But like I also got to pay the bills and my father said in Korean saying, daniel, make a decision in your life that in 10 years later you will look back and say I'm so glad I made the decision. So I told my girlfriend, who became my wife, girlfriend at the time.
Speaker 2:Girl told my girlfriend uh, who became my wife?
Speaker 2:yeah, girlfriend at the time girlfriend at the time favorite phrase, yeah, and I said, and I said, hey, I'm gonna do this thing, yeah, part-time, but full-time internship at gospel life. I'm making almost no money and she thought I was crazy. But, um, and I still did it. And, man, that was the best decision I made in my life and in the first week of that I've just going into this internship. Um, as you can imagine, I'm bothered. I'm like man, like my ego hurt. I'm like I cannot play, like I'm going to this job that I didn't get and now I have to start from the rock bottom. And it's on top of my ego being hurting. My executive pastor calls me into his office once again and he says hey, like I want you to meet with this guy named dave, uh, twice a month as your life mentor. Okay, you make an initiative? Here's a phone number.
Speaker 1:You just gotta sign to dave.
Speaker 2:They're like we have dave for you and I need to give a little context here. This guy called dave. Yeah was the guy who was in my final interview as a youth pastor, who went to my lead pastor and say this guy should not be the youth pastor can you imagine veto dave I'm like wow
Speaker 2:this guy's trying to write some korean drama or something this is wild, yeah, yeah yeah, and then, as you can imagine, man, the meeting I had with him, he became my life mentor, but I didn't know how to begin. It's like what does that even mean? I never had mentors in my life? Yeah, um the whole development like pouring out all these, whatever lingo that church is using.
Speaker 1:I'm not used to that, doesn't it feel like code words sometimes, absolutely, we're just like wait, wait, are we? What are we talking about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feels like someone's filming. I'm like, are you like recording this? Right, right, right. But um, we're just here to like set you on a path. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Of just improvement.
Speaker 2:You're like wait, are you firing me? No man, we just want to like that's so true, it happens. No man, but yeah, and then we met. It was super awkward and I was like what were those meetings? Like it was. I mean, it was like I can't.
Speaker 1:I don't have a lot of thoughts that are positive meetings.
Speaker 2:I know exactly, yeah. And I I remember leaving the first meeting I was like, okay, this is not gonna work out at the first part, this is just this, ain't it, but you know. But then I wanted to be teachable. I wanted to. Just at that point I was like man, whatever they asked me to do, I'm just gonna do it, I'm gonna crush it and I'm gonna, um, do a really good job so that I can learn. And, um, I kept meeting and man, like, the meeting became so much better, it became so much fruitful. And again, this is a guy who thought that I was not going to be a good youth pastor. He was just giving me really hard conversations and I think he was such a great guy to be accountable. He asked a lot of questions, hard questions about purity. I was not married at the time.
Speaker 2:He's like man how are you doing with that Right? How are you doing with your walk with the Lord? He was not managing my ministry or youth ministry, but he just gave me a really good insight as a parental perspective and you know, it was just amazing. He just kept me humble and it just allowed me to still be teachable, still fear God and not let my arrogance or or my pride getting in my way, because he would always call me out in a godly way.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, it was amazing and it eventually became such a great friendship now where he actually got to pray over me when I got installed as a student pastor because church was like in two months after getting mentorship they were like, hey, we should have you be a student pastor, which is why I'm still here right now he prayed over me for a student installation. He sat on my ordination council and he also prayed over me for my ordination as a pastor. I baptized his kid and I also prayed over him at his elder installation. So it's such a beautiful story that was drawn like from a weird mandatory mentorship that became a huge win in my life. So this is why, Zach, I think the reason why I'm talking mentorship is like I believe personally and I know we hear the word mentorship in so many ways and it's like oh yeah, of course you get it.
Speaker 2:I think every single young youth pastor listening to this have to have mentoring their life and it has to be discipline.
Speaker 1:I just am so passionate about it. That would be the thing, because I think a lot of folks are going to hear what you said Like, well, I have a guy.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And it's the thing that we hear a lot in conversations in Youth Ministry Boosters Like they have a network.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:They think, you know, if they wanted to reach out they could, or they'll have a couple coffees, a couple coffees like, but again to take the lesson learned from dave like. That's far more intentional and almost like frictional oh and so what? What are some of the ways in which you would like, as someone who has benefited from, encourage someone else to like I mean, let's, let's not use the code words, let's use the real words yes, submit to that kind of mentoring like right um again, because it wasn't what you signed up for.
Speaker 2:It's what they handed out to you, right? Yeah, yeah, um, I would say so right now. Whenever in my student ministry setting, when I have a lot of college students who wants the internship with me, I make it mandatory too, like I don't, I don't let it slide. I say, hey, I say I'll mentor your ministry stuff, but you need to have a life mentor and that life mentor is not you oh, it's not me, it's not always it's, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's not.
Speaker 2:It's not based on the ministerial work it literally is that life, because I want it to be life mentor. Okay, even so. Who are those people? So? Who are those people?
Speaker 1:how do you?
Speaker 2:how do you?
Speaker 1:how do you pair them? How do you recruit them? How do you pair them? How do you recruit them? How do you?
Speaker 2:pair them, how do you equip them? Yeah Well, I think you know, just work in ministry. I always have a list of 20 godly men, godly women in my notebook all the time. Yeah, so, and you know, I usually have like five to six interns every semester. So I really make it mandatory, like I just really believe that I don't really encourage it. I honestly feel like it's a must, it's no, and you said it too A lot of guys, I don't think anyone would say I hate mentoring.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of course they won't, yeah, and they will all say, oh, I have a guy, I have a guy I can call anytime I want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think it needs to be a part of discipline and I think a lot of people need to stop waiting for mentors to make an initiative, and you make an initiative. Yeah, like, if you're, I just believe the calling as a pastor. We talk about calling all the time when I, when I read the book of second Timothy, a man who's life?
Speaker 2:of above, above reproach. Yeah, like man, to get there we have to be held accountable. Yeah, meaning, at least once a month, twice a month, like you need to make initiative for this guy to keep calling you.
Speaker 1:Hey, like, keep, like, pour into me, scrub, clean me out, yeah, and also call me out. You call me out like you. You need, you need that, especially young guys. Like well, because you, yeah, we, we naturally resist accountability absolutely, and that is something and and you see, we see it in our students and we, we pray against it and we hope differently. But I think that we have to be active, or activate in a way in which that we are seeking it, so that we have the confidence to speak about it, cause I do think that's one of the danger traps of ministry is it's always like wishful of like.
Speaker 1:I hope you will, or maybe one day. But it needs to be so grounded and lived in your own life that when you talk about the importance of confession, you've just come from a place of confessing.
Speaker 1:Yeah so so what are some of the things that like for those relationships, maybe either from either your experience with Dave or the for the intern folks, that you have, those care formation things, what? What is the? Give us the cheat sheet? What are the questions? What are the hard topics? Is it as simple as um, uh, your mind, your heart, your body, your finances like what? What are some of those life areas that we need to be um, scraped clean?
Speaker 2:I mean, I'll be honest with you man, like I have a personality of, like I love honesty and transparency also being raw.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, but I also respect that. Hey, for some people it might be a little too much for me to get the same thing as I received, right. However, one thing that I always encourage. So when I pair my intern with a mentor, I always call the mentor as well, saying hey, um, I have this girl or this guy who wants to learn ministry for six months here in student ministry. Would you be willing to meet this person once a month for coffee or really? Um, help them accountable. 100 of time they say yes, every single time. Right and um, every single time they say yes, and I always give a list of three or four questions.
Speaker 1:One of them is purity because they're all usually young guys. This is all for the young guys.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying old guys don't need mentors, but I believe especially young pastors. Oh, I want to be in ministry. You all always need someone who's going to hold you accountable and I always ask about purity and I love to use finance. I think same for finance and I'm not saying tell me how much you make.
Speaker 1:Not to make money, but again in the same way. Where do your eyes go?
Speaker 2:Where do your money go? These are tells for how you spend your time what you watch online what?
Speaker 1:you listen to how you spend your money, what you watch online, what you listen to how you spend your money. Right, you've already told me a lot.
Speaker 2:I think those are things right. I think those are also mentioned a lot in the Bible. Man money is mentioned a lot in the Bible.
Speaker 1:It is, and also when Paul hits the vice list money and sex top of the list every time. All day, bro, Every time.
Speaker 2:So those two. And the last thing is, how are you doing with the walk with your Lord?
Speaker 1:How's your prayer life? How's your eyes?
Speaker 2:here. How's your reading? And I just recently was watching one of the podcasts and this guy made a fantastic comment where he said discipline beats passion. Yeah, every time I feel like youth pastors all have passions. I have passions, man, I'm all in, yeah, but I think it's if you're young and you're crushing it, especially in the field, like we have to have the discipline.
Speaker 1:Well, and the thing about discipline that's so powerful, is it? It helps to increase the capacity for the passion, like one of the one of the things that we use as a teaching example some of our booster members is that your calling is like a cup, and so you can either keep filling the cup or try to, uh, get a bigger cup right?
Speaker 1:uh, because it cups always pouring out like, you're all, you're always pouring the cup out, and you've got to keep refilling the cup, and so one of the ways to do it is just to keep refilling the cup over and over and over another way is to increase the capacity of the cup, and the capacity of the cup is not your passion, because passion will come and go.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:Willpower will be refreshed.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But the discipline of hey man, it's 6 am, we're going to the gym. Hey man, it's before bed, the phone's off and we're praying. Some of these things we do because they are, and it's exactly the life mentor thing. It's who we are Right, because it's what we've always done, and I think we leave too much of our faithfulness up to our choice, when it should be a matter of both patience and provision.
Speaker 2:That's good, okay, I love it.
Speaker 1:So what are some of the disciplined things that are true in your life? If we're going to model it for some of our friends here. So, Dan, from Dave to Dan, what? Are some of the discipline things that are trumping passion for you right now, like what are the things you're held to?
Speaker 2:One of the things is reading reading the word. My biggest repentance I had in 2024 is I used my sermon prep time as my devotional and I just had a really like big moment. Just my personal conviction with God of like man. This is not good. It was always for somebody else, Right, that's good, that's good, that's good. And another thing is just honoring my marriage Like that has to come Recently married yeah, six months ago, man.
Speaker 1:Hey, man, I had to congrats, I already missed my wife man well not away.
Speaker 2:We're here, that's true but yeah, like just those stuff just help me, keep telling me like, hey, don't forget, before you're a pastor your husband like your family must live before your ministry.
Speaker 2:Live in, man, those wise words, zach, like I just feel, like I was able to grow a lot even at such a young age because of those things and I think it just breaks my heart. I think I told you earlier it's like so many young leaders just fall apart because they were not held accountable, because the temptation is real, like evil wants us to quit. They want to keep tempting us.
Speaker 2:And I wish I had strength to do everything on my own strength. But I just believe that God has given us the brothers and sisters to encourage one another as a community and like. That's why the mentorship thing is not cliche for me. So I said this to someone and they're like oh, mentorship, are you going to talk about that again? That's boring. And I went to global leader summit in the summer and Craig Rochelle says hey, the next generation of leadership right now is going to be the boring leadership. Let's get back into discipline, let's get back into loving our family, let's get back into loving our students and just let's go back to the basics and stay disciplined. And man, those have been really helpful.
Speaker 1:Good word, man, it's good. Well, dude, thank you so much for coming to hang out today. Appreciate that we got a gathering of young leaders we've been hanging out with.
Speaker 1:I know that we're sharing some of the things in some of our next sessions that are like interest to you piquing your curiosity, putting you to research. Give us a little bit for the folks listening. What is something that, from a young leader to maybe someone who's either older, been doing it for a long time? What's something that you're paying attention to or is curious to you that you would want to have their, their eyes, their study, their, their, their learning on.
Speaker 2:Recently I read an article that talks about all the average uh, weeks, I know, sorry, average years of youth pastors staying in church, youth ministries 18 months, yeah, and man, I was heartbroken. It really broke my heart as a, as a next gen guy, and just seeing that that's a national average really broke my heart and I wish I had a solution to that issue. But just as we talked about mentorship, which I'll bring it up tomorrow as well, like I feel like it could be a small factor to help the young leaders realize hey, like, at times, even if it's hard, you also need resilience. Yeah, like green is and the grass is not always greener.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. And also.
Speaker 2:yeah, like I mean, just sometimes ministry is hard and I'm not saying this to minimize any of the pains that people experience in ministry at all. However, at times, like you know, we're living in the stages of sanctification and we have to learn how to disagree well and we also have to suffer well. So, and this is not again to you know, degrade any of the pains or struggles that people may face in a church setting, but I just wish more young leaders are able to have resilience in a ministry setting and love on their students more than 18 months.
Speaker 2:That's kind of where my heart is at now and I don't have an answer yet. Maybe Zach and Chad can help me out, guys.
Speaker 1:I don't have an answer, but I will say that the notion of suffering well is something that I think that generations of ministers are going to have to recover. Absolutely. There is a quality to that that is unmistakable and unavoidable that those that have called into ministry in the study of Scripture time and time again, from the patristic fathers to the prophets, to Jesus himself, that suffering seems inevitable for those that would long to be faithful in a world that's not so. It doesn't make it easier, I know, but it puts us in good company.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, that's right, that's right, you're right, man, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Dan, if folks wanted to follow up with you, connect with you more, what's the best way to do that?
Speaker 2:online. Oh yeah, you can email me. My Instagram is Danny to underscore in Tokyo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the guy from Tokyo, so good.
Speaker 2:Love to connect with you. Hit me up at any question and thank you so much for having me, Zach.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll see you all next week. Hey, dan, thanks so much, buddy Of course man See you later. Thanks everybody, We'll see you next time.
