Youth Ministry Booster
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Youth Ministry Booster
Youth Ministry Strategy For Pastoral Care: Nicknames to Notebird w/ Taylor Doe
This episode explores the significance of building authentic relationships in youth ministry while challenging traditional metrics of success. T-doe shares his personal experiences, from grassroots initiatives like Fast Food Valentine's to creating psychological safety for young people, emphasizing the impact of community and connection in nurturing today's youth.
• The origin of the nickname "T-doe" and its impact on personal identity
• Importance of relationships in youth ministry and mentoring
• Fast Food Valentine's as a tradition of kindness
• Measuring success in youth ministry beyond attendance
• Creating a psychologically safe environment for youth sharing
• Tracking relationships for more meaningful engagement
• The role of community and support among youth leaders
• Check out our friends at Notebird, a tool for managing and making the most of relationships in youth ministry
🔖🐦 Notebird special! 🔖🐦
Hey podcast listeners Taylor and team wanted to offer you a special promotion! Check it out here: https://www.notebird.app/booster
hey, we're back with another episode of the ministry booster podcast, hanging in the garage with my buddy taylor. I'm sorry, tito, tito I answered to both.
Speaker 2:I answered to both it's important to know.
Speaker 1:It was really funny, uh, because I I know you as taylor doe, but so many folks know you as Taylor Doe but so many folks know you as Tito, not Tito, no, tito. Is there an origin story for the Tito? I mean, obviously it's your name, but like where did that start?
Speaker 2:Well, it's ironic that we're on this podcast because it was a youth pastor, youth intern actually from our church.
Speaker 1:They're the best and the worst Right.
Speaker 2:You get a nickname from a youth pastor. And the worst, right, you get a nickname from a youth pastor.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that's dangerous, that's right, that's right, but it was, especially if you get a nickname from a youth pastor that has a nickname. You got to watch out for those like. Those are the ones that. That's the double that you're just like you might need to switch churches that's right. That's right. You got to get away from this. It will follow you until you're 50.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure yeah, it was a uh, a summer intern. Her name was k. I was probably in the fourth or fifth grade, okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, you didn't even have a chance. I had no chance.
Speaker 2:I didn't make it to middle school, right, and so that name caught stuck. And then I graduated high school with people who did not know my real name. Wow, it was just Tito, okay.
Speaker 1:Because now your brother is a Do a doe, but is he? Is he also a it?
Speaker 2:did yeah, so a few caught on. Cito some people, but not not at the not not at the same level as Tito, yeah yeah, so oh good.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm so glad that youth ministry nicknames have been pervasive even into this point. Man, I mean, it's followed you into internet fandom, fandom, fandom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, dude followed into corporate america like oh no when you make it into corporate. Oh no, the nickname you're like okay it's on the card, yeah it didn't make it on the business card that's hilarious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, just kind of around this is my financial investor squidward he was really into spongebob don't know he just stuck.
Speaker 1:He played the oboe. It's hard to say.
Speaker 2:We're going with it. We're going with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean well, hey, we're so excited to have you on the show. We've been friends for a while but you were in town around the holidays. So in this new year we wanted to talk a little bit about some of the new things in ministry. So we're excited the next few weeks We've got some fresh young voices in ministry.
Speaker 1:I'm going to call you the transitionally young because you say that we're the same age, but my man, you are aging much better than me and also have much more life to live, and so I wanted to have you share a little bit mainly because it is both some of your practice and a little bit of your expertise about relationships and the ways in which there is metric to it.
Speaker 1:That's one of the things that, in youth ministry, we talk a lot about the ways in which we are we doing good, are we winning, are we succeeding, are we growing? There's all these words we throw around Chad, and I talked about it last week on the show even of just like what are some things that we would do in this new year to grow and do differently. I want you to pitch us, tell us that, some of the things that we are already doing, maybe the good work. We just didn't think to put some of the stories with it. So, man, tell me a little so I can talk about it. Tell me a little bit, though, because you grew up in youth ministry and I want to hear. Tell us the stories of Monday night Bible study.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah. So I grew up in youth ministry here in Oklahoma and just kind of up the street from where we're sitting right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we had Monday Night Bible Study. Monday Night Raw is probably what you would call it.
Speaker 1:But see, I was like, because there's pro wrestling involved, come on now. There's definitely wrestling involved. That's why I was there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, come on now there's definitely wrestling and that's why I was there. Yeah, yes, so uh, my parents built on kind of this back game room per se they. They were like, the parents were like we want okay, kids are our place, right, so?
Speaker 1:brownies if I say milk, brownies or cookies, we gotta know brownies. Yeah, so it was brownies and uh.
Speaker 2:And so every monday night, 16 dudes, yeah, uh, in the game or in the back which is the perfect amount for halo 1.
Speaker 1:I don't know if there was four Xboxes or not, but that works out. We have done that. Yes, four different TVs all that.
Speaker 2:We had those kind of video game nights for sure. We had a basketball. We rigged this basketball goal like kind of hanging, so there were just kind of some, obviously, hoops in the bag Competitive backdoor basketball people are dying. People are literally dying just going through glass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going through glass drywall all this stuff yeah, so you kind of know how it is, just just all that. So, um, there was a youth pastor who came in our eighth grade year and was like hey, I'm sticking around until you just named graduate just named it. I'm your guy until you graduate, yes, and, and now that I know him, he is one of those guys right, like he is a, he is a man of his word. Yeah, he. Discipline is like something that I think about when when I think about his name.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it kind of aligned there and I pulled a lot from him. Yeah, Super intentional, like writing each one of us handwritten cards.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I still have some of those in my Bible or kind of different places that were just like encouragements that he would write to us over the course of our years when big things would happen.
Speaker 1:So he's the real deal. Yeah, yeah, is he still around doing the thing?
Speaker 2:He is not. He transitioned into corporate Okay, and so it was kind of cool to see the evolution of like.
Speaker 1:We knew him as Serge, yeah, and or Berg he had a nickname we're about nicknames up here, I was like of course he did yeah, yeah, of course he did yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was fun to kind of see the transformation of seeing him in youth ministry space and then seeing his impact in the work world.
Speaker 1:Which impacts you now as well.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, for sure you still keep up with him. Still keep up. Okay, we went to.
Speaker 1:So when he said he was going to be in your life, he meant it. He meant it meant it A hundred percent. I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so starting a new job, getting a card, postcard, getting a call, getting text, uh, we recently just went up he's now in northwest arkansas. Uh, we recently my brother, he kind of had a core group, we had the 16 and there's kind of a core smaller group. Yeah, and the core smaller group. Uh, we went up for his son's high school graduation and so we surprised him at his okay uh, reception. And then berg set up an airbnb with like this really cool fire pit and stuff. Yeah, so we all said goodbye to Jackson. He was thinking we're leaving. We went over to the Airbnb and.
Speaker 2:Jeff brought his son over and we kind of had just guys time talking about the next stage of life, all of that. So for him I'm sure it was really cool, Like seeing the guys that he invested in now invest in his son.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I mean the guy came from Ohio, I drove from OKC, Chris from Tulsa, Nathan from Owasso, Like but just that, like y'all, y'all were so impacted by him that you were willing to make the generational impact for his son. Yes, that's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2:So now we're checking in with him and all those things that we had an example from his dad that it's been really cool to do that for for his son.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, man which is some of the things, so so I don't even know where to start. Um, one of the things I love about you are all the different things that you have been and continue to be involved in, and they all like thread together. I'm sure that you like no man. It's all kind of one part of one thing. But I want to talk a little bit about that generational impact, because I think one of the things at least how I got connected to you through family and friends was fast food. I'm just going to say words over the next 40 minutes and I'm going to let you fill in the blanks.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to take the Mad Lib approach of just saying four or five words and then letting you explain whatever the heck I just said.
Speaker 2:Okay, saying four or five words and then letting you explain, whatever the heck.
Speaker 1:I just said okay, I like that, I like this, so okay.
Speaker 2:So taylor tito fast food valentine's yes, so so we'll fill in the blanks. Fast food valentine's. Uh, started my sophomore year of college and was incredibly single. It's valentine's day, yeah, most of my bros are taking out the girls and all that. And I was like, man, I want to do something kind for someone tonight. And so grabbed one of my other buddies and we went around and bought all these cards and chocolates and roses and delivered them to ladies working at fast food restaurants on Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know a strange flex, but okay Is that. The kids say yeah.
Speaker 2:So the the reason why I was like I was eating a ton of fast food. Yeah, I mean, I still am.
Speaker 1:I probably shouldn't admit that, but it was like wait, we talking like first name basis, Like you roll up and they're like Tito number two.
Speaker 2:So, uh, I actually, when I hit rock bottom, uh, I was eating at Whataburger so much that I much I was getting the employee discount.
Speaker 1:So hold on, because we have some friends that are very, very dedicated. Water burger eaters tito, what is your water burger order?
Speaker 2:bro I I switch.
Speaker 1:This matters. It may matter as much as anything else you share today. Yes, I'm I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm a plane, so I I do the number one. I'm just a water burger number one single. You're eating water burger like it's in and out, just like I'm there. I'm ketchup, uh cheese, ketchup, lettuce, mayonnaise, only cut in half. Oh, you can have them cut in half okay good water burgers will individually.
Speaker 1:Is that like a hack to like make sure it's fresh, like a freshness guarantee?
Speaker 2:yeah, so for me, it's cleanliness so they'll individually wrap each side if it's a good water burger. So you're driving. I don't need to hold this massive this massive burger. Yeah, bro, I got a half. Open it up, I'm done.
Speaker 1:Wait, you do a Whataburger on portion control.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you a little bit now a little bit later I have a car portion in a home portion.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yeah, exactly. So they'll cut it in half.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm simple anyway. So that year we started off pretty small. But we we hit the fast food restaurants and the response we got from women was wild bro. Like mean tears, hey, come inside, we'll give you free nuggets. Like thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Like they're like, thank you.
Speaker 2:Let like they're like, thank you, let us repay you okay, but we're like no, no, we're good, you know, amazing, and so we're like we gotta do this college age guys like like single dudes looking, looking for love and all looking for love and all the fast food places. If you've never gone through a drive-thru and said how many ladies are working a night, you haven't done life well. Okay, so that's how it started, right. And so you'd kind of be met like uh, it's like no no, we have a gift Creeper.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it turned out. It turned out well, so we decided to do it the next year.
Speaker 1:It started to, and so Just going to go ahead and make it a thing, like hey, it was great the first time, let's just make it a thing.
Speaker 2:Oh, we were like let's get a logo, yeah, so we.
Speaker 1:The most youth ministry thing about the story, for sure, a thousand percent Logo.
Speaker 2:So then we made custom postcards that were writing oh my, gosh the Valentine's on it right. Yes, come on, come on, we do it. And there were some ladies there who were like yo. We remember you from last year. These are boys, Our boys are back.
Speaker 1:We were wishing you would come back.
Speaker 2:So we did that for years and years and fast forward. I'm working in schools on the east side of Oklahoma City, kind of find a core group of guys that I'm kind of following up which we can talk about a bit, but they find out that we're doing fast food Valentine so I kept doing it. It's like we've been going for 18 years or something yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's expanded. Different organizations, schools, people have picked it up and are doing it in their own communities. Anyway, we had to step it up. So that year we rented tuxedos, we rented a limousine.
Speaker 1:Yes, and this is yeah, this is this is the one where I was like I know Cause, I was like what is going on, what is happening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we went big and, like the pioneer woman, donated cookbooks, like we did, like this whole yeah, this whole thing, it's now an Oklahoma treasure.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah so we're like rolling up.
Speaker 2:They make it on the front page of the biggest newspaper in oklahoma we had news crews following us.
Speaker 1:Yes, like it was dope. I don't know if you've ever been through a drive-through in a limo, but that's also special, so I mean I have it, but it sounds like it's on the bucket list yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's fun and it gave an opportunity for these guys to um. They want to give back, they want to be kind. Yeah, um, the guys I'm working with they have family who works fast food right so this is like yo. My aunt works fast food and this is a way for me to show that I care, that we care, we're thinking about you on a day that a lot of times sucks to work Valentine's. No one said happy Valentine's Day to me.
Speaker 2:Wednesday night for me, yeah. So it's been really cool to see the response that's been from fast food Valentine's. That's so good.
Speaker 1:Which, again, I think there's going to be a thread that we pick up here. The, the, the care in both unique and specific ways is one of the things. That's how I would, um, you're one of the most caring individuals I know, because one of the things that extends from that is some of those guys, uh, that connect through a school program right, like you were doing some speaking and working in schools um, share a little bit more about, like I think some people need to hear that I'm just like from the large audience of the school program to the investment of a few, because that's one of the most like youth ministry stories that I think is so true about your work is the ability to see the few in the midst of the many.
Speaker 1:I think that matters, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So I was working in schools, I created a character education curriculum, so we just kind of had a positive word of the month that we would talk about and do these school-wide assemblies. So it was called the hot seat.
Speaker 1:We kind of did this brand once again logo uh and brand it, brand it. We got to brand this thing.
Speaker 2:So, uh, this was, you know, 15 years ago, but, um, and then we did it for for many years but had this, this stool called the hot seat, expanded red, would interview students on it in front of the entire school. We'd have community leaders come in, and then it just evolved from there. So we had the hot seat wrap, uh, which we'd change every semester and kids would get up and rep their grade. Uh, we had the hot seat mailbox so student could.
Speaker 1:Students could write us postcards, okay, um, and leave it in the just make it a whole, like live segment, like a whole thing, like it's a whole feature it's a live segment.
Speaker 2:It also gave us time to uh for more like I shouldn't say intimate postcards, but like kids would share stuff with us well, but it was an outlet to find ways to connect I think that's one of the things.
Speaker 1:Uh, I mean hear us say that youth worker like that. Sometimes some of the bits that we build in aren't just fun for funny, but like they're, like these are appropriate ways to interact yeah because it's hard to know sometimes if you're only in like a setting that is, that is music and you don't sing, or like teaching and you don't like to sit listen to lecture, like how do I interact? What's going on?
Speaker 1:and I think that matters, it's the same reason to do like games and fun activities. It's like what level is my involvement with what's happening?
Speaker 2:yeah, for sure and sure, and we know this kids communicate in different ways right so some are very verbal. Some want to do art and you can watch what they're doing and then that starts a conversation. And then there's kids who want to write.
Speaker 1:Or they need to write after the fact, like they can't even in the moment, like they may want to like journal, but they may have to like take it home and do so. We can't just breeze past like well, that was two weeks ago, man. It's like man, it actually took him two weeks, yeah, to kind of sift through all the things or whatever.
Speaker 2:So we try to create kind of different avenues to be able to create this connection. Uh, so we had the hot seat. Uh, postcards mailbox. Uh, we had the hot seat crew, which was our sixth grade leadership development. Nice, so we would actually put mics in the hands of students, okay, uh, and let them practice which is a big risk and yet also a big payoff, a big risk reward, yeah yeah, it's crazy now just being around oklahoma city and doing it for so long. I'll see some of my hot seat crew kids, yeah, working.
Speaker 1:I mean the best is seeing them out and about right, and they will bring it up'm like dude, it's been eight years since you were, you know, yeah, but it was a formative moment and that's one of the things that the timeframe of 12 to 17, 13 to 19 is so formative for them identifying like talent and passion, and then if anybody can come along and equip that and name it, oh man, like that, that's the thing. That is the thing.
Speaker 2:And the thing that I would say is when those moments happen, I think those are a gift, bro, and so, like they will remember things that I don't remember, Do you, you know? Do you remember when?
Speaker 2:you know this happened, or I remember when you know this happened at the assembly, or we went out and did that project, that community project. This happened at the assembly, or we went out and did that project, that community project, and I will have forgotten about it and it will trigger a memory that, after the interaction is over, that's the time for me just to thank the Lord. It's just like dude thank you for that season Thank you for that interaction.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad they remember that. It just brightens up my day anytime I get to have that interaction with those students. So that was the platform was in three, four different schools, so over a thousand kids every single week doing these kinds of hype assemblies, but found, yeah, a core group of kids that I was like. You just kind of naturally gravitate towards right when you're just like this is a cool kid, you know.
Speaker 2:And so had a had a core group group. A few of them were brothers, kind of different ages but pretty close in age. Um had a few young ladies um that were kind of in the mix and they were kind of all friends it's kind of a similar friend.
Speaker 1:Well, they kind of they came as a cluster to you, they were a group as a group coming to you as a new kind of group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so, um, from that point was just like yo, this is my group, I want to, I want to follow them up, and so met them in when they were in first, second grade, and now they're 21, 22 that's wild, uh years old, does?
Speaker 1:that make you feel old, mature, wise, like what. What is, what does that do when you've known, like, known, some of the same kids for a decade or more? Because that is, that is a certain kind of like when they become adults, yeah, or they like, uh, have kids of their own right, like that's some of the thing that that really is like this shift, not just for them, but in you yeah, so for me this happened literally yesterday.
Speaker 2:I'll say, I still feel like a young pup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay the reason I say that, which I never use that terminology is I'm eating at You've passed your nickname. I'm eating at Chick-fil-A in my other spot Whataburger Chick-fil-A I'm eating by myself. Is there a mood association of things are going good, it's going one way, things are going bad in another way?
Speaker 2:Whataburger's more late night for me, celebr, one way things are going bad in a way.
Speaker 1:So water burger is more late night for me. Oh okay, okay, celebratory, okay after party.
Speaker 2:We won the day. We won the day. You did good. Yeah, go get yourself a burger. There you go. Yeah, chick-fil-a is just like bro quick, consistent.
Speaker 1:We're doing work. We're doing work. Yeah, we're having meetings. Get back to work, right so I'm sitting there. What's your chick-fil-a order?
Speaker 2:people want to know uh, I switch between nuggets and strips, but right now, 12 count nugget. Okay, 12 count nugs with a little side salad, three barbecue.
Speaker 1:Oh, three barbecue Sauce of choice is barbecue, yeah, barbecue, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:All right, you're judging. No, I'm not judging, do you?
Speaker 1:have Buffalo Cause. That's for me Like. It's like the I mean that's Buffalo wild wings on a budget that I can afford.
Speaker 2:I hear you, I hear you Buffalo wild wings. We don't need to talk about that, it's so good, but they've gotten so expensive.
Speaker 1:Yes, so that's true. Yeah, Let me say yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting at Chick-fil-A there's yeah, I'm 69 and I'm still a young pup. No way, dude, listen, 69.
Speaker 1:Hey, age is a frame of mind, man. You are as old or young as you feel.
Speaker 2:69 and I'm a young pup, and so when you say like hey, I have been doing this work to see them, grow up and all this.
Speaker 2:I still feel like a young pup. I don't really I don't feel old, young pup, I don't really, I don't feel old. I feel fortunate that this group of young people would still allow me in their life, like still getting text messages. The conversation has evolved over the years right, like meeting kids, kind of in their stage of life and their development, right. The conversations we're having, you know know, second, third grade, joking around freestyle rapping in the car while we're going to get golden corral, uh has evolved a little bit. Uh to the conversations that we're having now around, uh, apartment leases, like understanding what a lease is, and, uh, you know, car payments nine months.
Speaker 1:I've committed nine months, right, yeah, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're. You're in this joke, right? Um, and like how to get things, I've committed nine months, right, yeah, man, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're in this Joker, right, that's it. And like how to get things fixed in the apartment when something how to do interviews I'm super passionate. I think a lot about first experiences. I think the way that us, as adults, show up in the lives of kids when they do things for the first time, okay Is huge.
Speaker 1:So when they do things for the first time is huge. So what are some of those that you've identified? I think that's one of the things you've worked with enough teenagers through schools and ministry stuff. What are some of those? If you were going to lay out a framework of some key first experiences, what are some that are the obvious, but some of the surprising for you as?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, so I think of both big and small. I think the people who do it really well notice first time experiences, even in the small, uh, and then obviously the big right. So the big for me might be like uh, I've helped kids learn how to parallel park, like getting your driver's license Right, yeah, yeah. Um, and I know that's kind of shifted in recent.
Speaker 1:It's not just it's, it's the like, the little parts of the big. How to parallel park, right yeah um, things like that.
Speaker 2:Going to your first thunder game, we have the okc thunder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, the your first nba game which used to be cheap, but now it's expensive. Yeah, so you?
Speaker 2:gotta, you gotta kind of yeah, yeah seasonally, yeah, seasonally uh, no, first time that they have a mic in their hand, first time they're going to speak in front of an audience. Uh, first time that they are going to a choir competition, first time they're trying to learn something new, right? All of those things are big for kids, and I think as adults we've done it so many times that it's easy for us to forget that, oh, we did that for a first time at one point, and there's a level of anxiety that sometimes comes with that. Yeah, and we can be the ones that walk and coach them through those moments these actually are like nerve-wracking moments, yeah, like.
Speaker 1:I mean I think about so many youth leaders that like, and the mic is just part of sunday or wednesday life for us, but for some kid like and it's, and it's often that like post-program curiosity like that was always one of my favorite moments at one of the churches I served at early ministry is that everything happened in one large room and so, like when things were done, it was like you dismissed but nobody went anywhere or whatever.
Speaker 1:So there was always like there was, like they would just go from like sitting in rows of chairs to like the wall, but, like you know, music's still playing. In rows of chairs to like the wall, but like you know, music's still playing. And so, like the stage went from being like the teaching platform or like the band into almost like impromptu karaoke.
Speaker 1:It's for so many kids, that reality of like, even though the stage was like a three inch, like riser yeah the fact that you were on a stage holding a mic singing your favorite disney song, or whatever as a middle schooler like that's like, took great guts. And also like that's, that's a rarefied experience that does not happen at home. Yeah, like they can practice for it at home, but it's like, oh, I'm about to bust into this.
Speaker 2:Yes, so yeah and so with that, um, that component is, I think, a lot about practice reps, the the way that you build skills as humans is through practice. Yeah, and uh, I think specifically about low stakes practice reps is kind of what I call it, the ability to practice something without failing, so that, when the time comes, you're, you feel, prepared.
Speaker 1:You've, you've. You've done it enough to feel confident you could do it, regardless of the situation that you're doing it in. Okay, so what are some of those? So here's an example. This happened literally last week.
Speaker 2:I took one of my guys. He's um, he is a sophomore now in high school. He's going to this uh, college scout football camp. Okay, here in oklahoma is about an hour drive, and so his mom can't take him. I'm going to take him. Yeah, we're riding in the car and we kind of I start asking him questions as if I'm a college coach Okay, right, yeah and hearing his answers, and we kind of craft this for him. So that?
Speaker 1:Just working it out, just working it out.
Speaker 2:Right, so that when you actually get a chance with the college coach, yeah, this is not the first time you've had on this play. Yeah yeah, right. So those are the moments where it's like well, here's, here's how I might say that, and then let's run it back right yeah, uh, and so that was a practice reps, low stakes, that you can bumble over yourself.
Speaker 2:You can say, uh, I don't really know what I would say to that question. Yeah, and we could craft it out so that, when you're in front of this coach, you feel more confident in that uh. So that's for maybe in the youth context is like the worship.
Speaker 1:You know I played guitar, yeah, grown up, I think well, but I but I think, even though like, yeah, the youth ministry context of like youth ministry functions, man, but like those mentoring realities of, because that's that's I think some of of the tension that we have in a lot of youth group spaces is that we've got a, you know, a lead youth worker, youth pastor, youth minister figure, but the rest of the team is usually volunteers that are moms and dads, grandparents, college kids that are either working jobs, starting businesses, caretaking households.
Speaker 1:They're either working jobs, starting businesses, caretaking households, and so the confidence level that even they have for biblical, theological conversations is middling to moderate. But, man, there are some moms and dads that are in business world that would easily readily rehearse an interview with a student and that might be as life-giving and connective as trying to get through the six small group questions on Sunday, and so I mean again, I think that's that's one of the things. Again, part of what your shared experience is for our team is that you are interacting in some of these ways. I think we've got to expand our minds outside of just like the start and beginning of a Sunday or Wednesday like program or whatever so low stakes.
Speaker 1:High rep low stakes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, low stakes, man, and in in being thoughtful about, I think if you sit down you could probably map out where, where are the places that kids have a first experience within my program, Right, and then you can also step aside and say where are the spaces that I'm at um as a leader, that I can step into? That outside of the church context, outside of our building, outside of where we meet, could be a good exercise to evaluate those potential first experiences for students. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's good. Well, share a little bit more One of the things. There's two big things that I really wanted us to get in today, and one is the ways in which we can measure, I think, this kind of relational success in ministry. But one of the pieces related to that is creating a safe enough space for relationships to happen. And so, man, from your wisdom and experience and this is, I think, part of one of your gifts that you can give church leaders, like, what is the thought process, the language, the shift could be creating more and more safe spaces, not just physically safe, but emotionally or relationally safe spaces for students to share, because I think that's sometimes we feel like man, like the kids don't want to talk and, yes, kids learn differently and we have different ways of expression or processing internal, external. But thoughtfully, as a leader, how can we design, with intention, safer spaces for relational sharing?
Speaker 2:For sure, I think the word that comes to mind is psychological safety. So, that can be something that if you're interested in that, you can search it. Yeah, To like boil it down. It's just the feeling that if I fail, I'll be okay.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so if you can create psychological safe places, that in my brain if I fail, I'll be okay. If I, I'm okay to ask questions and explore things in a way that it's not going to hurt me. I saw this video recently that kind of explains this. When I watched it I was like this is what I'm trying to do yeah. And it was this dude learning how to do trapeze. Okay.
Speaker 1:Like trapeze artists, which feels like a very unsafe thing.
Speaker 2:Unless you like, have the right precautions, exactly so first, um, in order to do this, you start on the ground and they give you the bar right.
Speaker 1:So they're like, okay, they're explaining to you, you're on the ground, the platform but you have a harness on, okay, and you're swinging and you're doing like the basics, right, yeah, you're holding, you're holding the bar, but the harness is holding.
Speaker 2:The harness is holding you, yes and what you don't see they pan out is there's a safety net, okay, uh, below you, yeah, and then, um, there's also another safety net under the safety net.
Speaker 1:Right, double, double nets. We go double.
Speaker 2:You're going double safety net here, okay so then, once you feel more comfortable, comfortable, they take off the harness. And you're now doing these tricks and you're kind of seeing them like swing in, grab the other person do the whole thing. I'm not a trapeze artist professional.
Speaker 1:Just circus interested? Yeah, lightly on the edge yeah.
Speaker 2:But when I saw that video I was like dude, I'm trying to like be that for kids. But when I saw that video I was like dude, I'm trying to be that for kids. That when they are trying new things for the first time when they're around me, they feel like they have a safety harness on and two safety nets.
Speaker 2:That's like dude, try it, you're good, and then, as you're growing, we're going to take this harness off but you still have they're still in that here and two things that kind of come to mind from that is working, um, I get to be around family, like low-income families and stuff, and I don't see the safety that I had growing up. Okay, um, in my, in my spaces, we we don't need to jump in too deep into that. But one story that comes to mind, yeah, is one my kids day, kwan, and he was on the hot seat crew. He has a mic, he we were talking last week. He's now married, has a baby on the way. Yeah, super cool. And he called and was like Tito, I just had this incident that reminded me of the hot seat crew. He went on to later become a youth pastor down in Dallas. Really cool stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he went on to later become a youth pastor down in Dallas, Really cool stuff.
Speaker 2:Anyway, he's like there was a moment in sixth grade when I was on the hot seat crew. You handed me the mic, we had the script, all that and I messed up in a big way and in that moment I was starting to feel really embarrassed and you stepped in with the other mic. We had kind of two mic system right.
Speaker 2:You stepped in and you changed, Caught him, Caught him right. You changed direction of the assembly, saved me. People didn't even realize that I'd messed up All of that and we were able to keep going and he's like. I've thought of that moment so many times that I had an adult in my life who, when I was at the peak of potential embarrassment that my joke joke didn't land, that the hot seat rap didn't go like I had planned.
Speaker 2:You came in and were able to do that. That has been something that stuck with him, that I think as adults and as youth leaders and all that we can be these, these schools of trapeze you know where we're like, we're creating these safe environments for kids to try new things without them completely hurting themselves that way.
Speaker 1:Well, because it is. I think this is one of the things too, especially if you're looking to be a youth ministry truly counter-cultural, because one of the things as much as we talk about both in this space on the podcast and in the network Youth Ministry Booster, that relationships relational youth ministry is the future of youth ministry. That relationship is the tool that makes youth ministry possible and happen. It's the ways in which relationships inside of a ministry web or structure are very unlike everywhere else. Like most folks that are teenagers now, when they date, if you break up, you never talk to them again Most folks like you're friends until you're not.
Speaker 1:Most adults only know you in one way and it's very one dimensional. And so the idea that the church could exist to be a place that would intentionally place multiple adults in the life, in the way of students, to know them more fully, to begin to ask and champion and cheer and to trust and to try and to challenge, like that's so very different than any other space of them only being known as a student, an employee or even sometimes as a son or a daughter.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%, that's so good, and you kind of mentioned this earlier kind of why we were talking before was, as that's the thing, the metrics or the way that we track our success hasn't really followed.
Speaker 1:I don't know oh yeah, you were kind of talking about attendance, right, right, right.
Speaker 2:What were your thoughts about kind of the program versus relationship, versus tracking, versus?
Speaker 1:Well, this is where I want to solicit your help, because that's one of the things that I think is the tension for those, especially those that are staffed in a youth pastor, youth ministry role is like what is the proof that our financial investment in you is paying off in the life of our ministry? Like that's that's a really fancy way of saying are you doing a good? How do we know you're doing a good job?
Speaker 1:You know we talked earlier. Like in the business world, we can look at a spreadsheet of, you know, numbers are up, sales are good. Or, you know, maybe maybe sales aren't up but margins improve. Like, there's all these different ways of like, nuancing the like, how are we doing conversation? And because a lot of churches are structured like organizations, you know, maybe like a nonprofit or a business, but they haven't given all of the careful thoughtfulness to their measurements.
Speaker 1:The easiest metric that we fall into is, you know, for some churches is either giving and or attendance. Right, like, are we? Are people giving more or are people attending more? Well, that's great if the world hasn't gone haywire with over busyness. Right, like, the American family is more busy today, right or wrong, they just are more busy today than they've ever been before. And so now we're competing against everything else on a metric that maybe wasn't even in our control.
Speaker 1:And then this is the part for me, the rub wasn't even our favorite part of what we did. Like, if you ask any youth minister like, again, I asked you about youth you were telling me stories of the people that invested in you. Like, I didn't hear any of the younger Taylor, tito stories of. Like, do. Our youth group we had 70 people and then we went to 90 people and it was awesome.
Speaker 1:Like there was never, like that was never the consideration for you as a teenager. Like, like, maybe you went to this church cause your friends were there, but like that's not how you're. Like, that's not how they're measuring. I mean, we want, we want them to feel again known, connected, love, safe, but that can happen in a group of 12 or 120. It can also happen in a group, not happen in a group of 12 or 120, but yet we don't have any other things and so, like, the relationships have to matter, but nobody, nobody's measuring it, but you. You've been measuring relationships for your own self, for fun. Like this is my again. So fast food, valentine's trapezes, school programs, hot seats. One of my favorite things is that you, like, on your own person, are like I want to be a relational person to the point that I'm going to track myself. I don't. People are tracking calories. I track my calories. You're tracking your relationships. Say more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. So I believe that people feel genuinely cared for when you remember the details in their lives. And as you move into new spaces, as your ministry begins to grow, as you have new friends, as you move into different places, you meet more people, which means that there's more details to remember, and I wanted to be intentional in the way that I moved in spaces to remember those details in the lives of those people. And as I moved into more spaces, more details, I felt like people were falling through the cracks. I felt like I was forgetting some details. I was like I need a way to stay organized when it comes to that. Right, I have kids, I have young people that I'm interacting with. I started this business working in corporate. You know all all these different things and needed a way to to stay organized with what I was doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what? So what are some of the things that you're tracking in relationship? I think this is where like this is this is the ministry leaders, church leaders, move, leverage, exercise, operate in relationship. But but I mean, are we just writing down what like, what, what, what? What are you tracking when you're tracking these things.
Speaker 2:So I am tracking a few things. One is the type of interaction that I have. So was this a coffee meeting? Okay, was this attending a sports event? Yeah was this a um like crucial conversation?
Speaker 1:okay, was this a flagging it a little bit. Yeah, just like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just general did it go well? Did it go bad? Yeah, I'm not. I'm not rating the conversation like that.
Speaker 1:Um, it is very, it's not bad. Yeah, this is good uh, very.
Speaker 2:I would say this is very simple, but just like kind of that, that interaction, then I'm I'm taking like a just a brief note of what happened, uh, of the, the kind of the, the topic of conversation, something that I want to remember uh, down the road, if a, if a student shares a detail, or someone shares a detail about their life, um, that I want to remember, that's important, I want to type that down, um, and then I save it and kind of have a record, um, that I'm able to reflect on, uh, before I go meet with them again, kind of just jog my memory as well.
Speaker 2:As what's been cool is, now that I've been doing it for a long time, is really being able to reflect on the longevity of our relationship and like the highs and the lows of what we've been through and once again kind of coming back and thanking the Lord for things that I necessarily didn't remember but were able to read through and jog my memory, just like. That was a really cool moment that you showed up in the life of this student or life of this person, and I have this logged, essentially journaled, in this tool, so it becomes the record of relationship, which which, in so many ways, like I mean memory.
Speaker 1:I mean you've joked earlier, like you know, I don't remember things very well and I laugh and I'm like but but you do because you've you've done.
Speaker 2:The old proverb of you know, uh, you know, the faintest pencil is better than the strongest memory or whatever, because you were like no, I mean, I know that I'll forget, but what won't is if I can have a place to put it, and so yeah yeah, for sure, and so that's that would be the the context of of that, of just like, hey, I want to be known for caring for people and caring for people well, and people are doing this regardless. It's been interesting kind of talking with people about their processes. Some people use a spreadsheet. There's a dry erase board in the office of people who are in the hospital or kids that we need to check in with. There's a shared Word doc or Google doc, and these are kind of what churches are using mainly to kind of keep track of people and all that. And so I've tried all those things and it just didn't really work for me and so we kind of built a tool specifically for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you and your brother built a whole system around, or Notebird around all of the ways in which people can track, and so what are some of those? What are the things that you would encourage others to? I mean, you talked about like crucial conversations and where things happen like, but part of that, at least, the ministry world is being able to share that like with other people. So what are some of those like shareable features, like what are some of the sharing things to help connect folks that need to know, because we talked before like it, help connect folks that need to know, because we talked before like it, one of the things that we want is for people in ministries, outside of those that are just staffed to ministries, to be able to have a place to put, to share, to celebrate. So, like, tell us more. What does that look like? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So I think what's been cool we built this tool. It an app that helps churches, youth ministries track and organize care. And what's been really cool as I've talked with church leaders and they're kind of providing us feedback is they say we've never been able to see relational data like this right, like we know that pastoral care is happening, we know that our small group leaders are checking in with people but we've never really been able to see it visually, and so when that gets put into Notebird, there are features in their care reports that allow you to see this data in ways that people have never been able to see before.
Speaker 2:And so, as we're talking kind of about the shift from attendance and programs to this relationship, there hasn't really been a place or an easy way to do that and know that we're doing it well. And so, with the, with the tool that we built, it allows church leaders, youth pastors, to see this information in one place of the basketball games that small group leaders are attending, or taking them out to golden crowd was my example, cause that's just like the buffet where you can just eat as much as you want, right?
Speaker 1:We're just going to get you there and then you can have everything that you want.
Speaker 2:That's right, and conversation is going to spur from that, don't worry about it, we're going to have a competition of who can eat the most pancakes, right? Sometimes, when the food's bad, it's even better. Yeah, right, right, like Eight out of 10.
Speaker 1:Food four out of seven. Yeah, exactly, Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um with, with with the tool, it's been really cool to see how teams are engaging with it together as a team. So it's a behind the scenes tool. Um, so, as a as one of your small group leaders inputs, an update is what we call it into note, bird, that goes into the feed for the youth pastor to be able to see everybody, or?
Speaker 1:whoever needs to see.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly so you can have a small group leader. Just have access to their small group. Okay, they're making updates about the interactions that they're having. So you, as the leader, of the admin can see a running list. Some semi-private list of stuff. Nice, nice, Okay. Sharing private things in their lives that should be for accountability purposes, their small group leader and another caring adult, yes, and again, that's the balance of care right is.
Speaker 1:What you shared earlier is so good the details, but I think, also shared with enough of the right people.
Speaker 2:And that's part of why we do prayer lists anyway, we want others to know to be praying. So what are the ways in which we distribute, communicate that information? Yeah, and so with this, it allows you to kind of keep a pulse on your youth ministry, of like knowing who's getting checked in with what life events are happening. That also gives you, as the leader, insights into how to approach kids.
Speaker 2:I think context is big right, like if, if a kid loses a loved one, sometimes we don't always hear about it because we're not directly. You know, it's like depending on how big your youth group is, but you have a small group leader who hears about it first and is able to see that there, then you can, you know, come up with a plan on how are we going to coordinate, how are we going to do these things. It just brings that all into one place. Also, are we going to do these things? It just brings that all into one place. Also, it allows, if there is some turnover with a youth pastor or a youth leader, it allows someone to pick up where they left off and give context for them stepping in to that ministry. That's good, that's good.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, thank you so much for coming today and sharing like one of the things that I love. Uh is just hearing updates from you and stories and I know that, uh, you, you've, you did you 100, 100 hangouts with a friend because that's good, so what that's. So? Uh, that was the reason to get connected when we did to record this is that we were we were closing in on the goal of 100 hangouts with one particular friend, right, you and daryl. Right, right, hang out with Daryl. Yeah, daryl, daryl. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I have a buddy, his name's Daryl, and we calculated how many times we hung out last year. It was around 45-ish times this year. We're like bro 100 hangouts Hondo easy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Hondo and so through that. I've been tracking every interaction. Um, we're on hangout number 93. We're getting close to the end of the year. Um, we are going to make it. I'm going to speak that uh to a hundred, but it has been cool to like um see this happen. I know we're in a life stage that allows us to do that, both of us. He's an empty nester Now. His, his youngest, just went off to college. Um, and I'm in a space you know, unmarried no kids. That allows me to a little flexibility Sure.
Speaker 2:Sure, so we've been able to do that, but it has been cool. We're not inviting people necessarily to do a hundred, which is wild, but it has invited people to say, hey, I don't see the people I really care about enough, yeah, or I only saw someone two times this year. Let's make it four.
Speaker 1:So it's been really cool to do that with him. Well, to put the challenge again, everybody that talks about the things that matter are all these qualitative, relational things. But we know that for so many folks, like if it doesn't get measured, it doesn't often feel like it matters. So let's just do the thing that we need to do and just make the challenge, make it competitive and then put it out there Like this is what we're going to be about. Yeah, for sure, that's a gift. And if I can say one more thing, yeah, Would be that.
Speaker 2:so Derek and I did assemblies in the schools together back in the day.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so he is someone who cares about kids, yeah, and mentoring and all that. He has a business around mentoring, but it's been cool to spend time with people who are in the work and I think this speaks to like having a community of other people who are doing the same work that you're doing. There's also another group of guys that we hang out with at least once a month, so we get 12 to 14 hangouts.
Speaker 2:Okay, so there's already 12 that are kind of padded in with this other group of guys and ladies who are working with young people, and so when I leave that space, I feel rejuvenated. We share stories, right we're? Sharing like best practices, how this happened, what should I do? And so to speak on that of like yes, we hung out a hundred times. That's not realistic, but if you are in the youth ministry, you need another person who is in youth ministry who is doing this.
Speaker 2:If you are doing this by yourself, you need another person who is in youth ministry who is doing this. If you are doing this by yourself, you're doing it wrong. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what I would say is like and this might lend to what you guys are doing, which I love. What you guys are doing is like going through 100 Hangouts this year made me realize even more that I need a community of people that are in this with me, and so, yeah, that being said, like we'd love to offer Notebird to your people, so if they're a member, we have a special discount for them If you're just listening and you're a fan of the Youth Ministry.
Speaker 2:Booster Podcast, like you also can get it Okay, cause we want to help youth pastors people working with young people to track these details for them to be able to show up in the lives of their kids.
Speaker 1:Love it man, we'll do. We will drop that in the show notes. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. If folks want to follow up with you more, thank you, connect with you, ask questions about everything from fast food choices to life choices Dude, that hack on Whataburger, I'm still sitting with that one or just even more of like your own personal ethos about relationships mattering enough that we track them. What's the best way to follow? Stay up, keep up with you.
Speaker 2:So Instagram socials is Taylor Doe, but it's T Doe on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Like Doe a deer D-O-E. Yes.
Speaker 2:T-D-O-E Doe on Instagram. Like Doe a deer. Like D-O-E, yes, t-d-o-e Doe a deer, yeah, and then taylordoecom, and andthenmomentscom is another one.
Speaker 1:So we'll drop that video in the show notes and you'll be impressed.
Speaker 2:That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1:Yes, super good. So, my friend, thank you so much, dude. It's always so good to be with on. Make sure to check the show notes below for the ways in which you can keep up on the things that he's doing. And then moments the video and the movement. And a price peep, that special discount on Notebird. We know that relationships matter in youth ministry. Wouldn't it matter a great deal to you if you could collect the things that matter most and manage those relationships through yourself and other ministry leaders? Check it out and more in the show notes or at youthministryboostercom. We'll see you next week.
