Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
How To Teach the Bible (Teacher's Version) w/ Karen Workun
But how do you teach the Bible? So that students will learn?
Special Guest Alert: Karen Workun!
In this engaging episode Zac Workun and his guest Karen Workun dive deep into effective strategies for teaching scriptural texts. Karen shares her unexpected passion for genealogy, likening it to storytelling through concise biographies, and how this interest parallels the narrative engagement required in studying and teaching the Bible. Zac talks about the art of creating a "learning tree," drawing connections through recurring names and themes in scripture to enhance comprehension.
Managing The Ministry Calendar
With the holiday season in full swing, we share the reality of juggling ministry life with family commitments. Organizing the chaos requires teamwork, and we've developed some strategies to keep everything running smoothly.
From shared digital calendars to Sunday night family meetings, these tools help us avoid last-minute surprises and ensure everyone is on the same page. Our wall calendar serves as a visual anchor for prayer lists and personal goals, providing a clearer picture of the week's priorities amidst the festive frenzy.
Teaching the Bible *Teacher's Version*
Building strong relationships is at the heart of effective ministry, especially with teenagers. We explore the art of making complex texts relatable and engaging, whether we're teaching literature or scripture. By fostering curiosity and encouraging collaborative exploration, we aim to create a space where young minds can connect personally and intellectually with scripture. We believe in asking key questions like "What did you notice?" and "What did you wonder?" to spark engagement and build a community of learners, where both students and leaders grow together in their understanding and appreciation of biblical texts.
About our guest Karen Workun
Karen's insights draw from her extensive 15+ years classroom teaching experience. She is a proponent of emphasizing the need for teachers to slow down and not rush through scripture, recognizing the fast-paced world students navigate today. She encourages leveraging various communication tools beyond classroom settings to maintain engagement.
A snap, Karen. That's such an underwhelming introduction. That's such an underwhelming introduction. Hey everybody, this is actually my wife, Karen. Hi y'all Making her podcast re-return. It's been a few years since we've had you on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when I was on last time, were you even on the podcast? I don't think so. I think we did the episode where it was like the wives of the podcast. Yeah, and when I was on last time, were you even on the podcast? I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I think we did we did the episode where it was like the wives of the podcast and it was like you and martha and that was the whole funny bit it was.
Speaker 1:It was like I don't think you were actually on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was me and martha yeah, I think it was like you were playing my role and then chad's wife martha was playing his role, and so that was. That was like the wives of the podcast. I don't know if we've ever actually had this. We've done recordings for other things like Church and Life, but I don't know if we've ever done a Youth Ministry Booster podcast in the garage together.
Speaker 1:I know this is so funny, it's a little surreal.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to lie, it's a little surreal, it is. We had like put the kids to bed, like this is like one of the few podcasts that we're literally recording after 9 pm. I mean they usually get released after 9. They never are like recorded after 9.
Speaker 1:That's wild, yeah, yeah yeah, I definitely had to like, like, make myself. I had to untire myself, uh getting them to bed and it's like, oh gosh. This is normally when I am just like ready to go to sleep done.
Speaker 2:I think I was half awake watching monday night football, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, so it's okay while, while I was waiting for them to kind of fall asleep, I was finishing, uh, the latest episode of the great brit Baking Show. There you go, but that almost lulls you to sleep Just comfort shows all around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we watch a lot of comfort TV. That's one of the things that I will say on this side of like 35 into 40 and parenting TV is rarely like let's just watch an amazing bingey, whatever kind of show. It's more just like let's just put something on in the background.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, like I think about before we had our kids that we went through seasons. I know that when you were in seminary we had a couple of free weeks in the summertime.
Speaker 2:A break from classes or between papers, One of those very rare moments of like okay, zach doesn't have class.
Speaker 1:I'm not teaching currently. I'm on summer break.
Speaker 2:We would pick a show and just watch so much tv oh, at breakfast, at break, at dinner there was so many like we watched, lost at like 7 and 8 am with Serial, trying to get caught up because we were one of those couples that missed it on the first go-around. And so we had to binge it later.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was all available, but y'all, that's a lot of TV to get through.
Speaker 2:It's also a lot of Lost. At one time. It's an emotional rollercoaster.
Speaker 1:And to put yourself through that kind of emotional rollercoaster in a binge worthy fashion, it's a lot. It's a lot. I can't.
Speaker 2:Just seeing smoke dragons at night.
Speaker 1:No, no. And so now we're at the stage of life where you know it's go, go, go during the day, the boys go to bed, and then what can I put on that is soothing and banal, just like I actually look forward to you putting on great british baking yeah, the great british show it's, you put it on and I just lay on the couch and just slumber. Yeah, I mean it's hard to go wrong with pastries and people being kind to one another and speaking calmly to one another.
Speaker 2:Just low-stakes cooking. Yes, Just low-stakes patisserie.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'll tell you what that added onto the weather that we have had this week of just like steady rain, which is actually why I think you were going to record with Chad today, well, so we had this whole thing, but listen y'all. We've had Naders in November here in. Oklahoma, which is not ideal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not planned, not ideal and not typical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah. So Chad had to stay home with his precious kiddo today because school was canceled.
Speaker 2:There was a threat of tornadoes.
Speaker 1:Because of tornado threats, and that school's not the only one that had to call school today. There were a lot of schools across the state that were like. This is potentially too dangerous. We're shutting it down.
Speaker 2:Well, so we had Chad back finally after a run of being gone, and so we had several plans that Chad was just going to be back on, Like he had some time away and was going to be back. But several planned that Chad was just going to be back on, Like he had some time away and was going to be back. But he literally has been back for one and now he's dipped out and he'll be gone for a few weeks. But that's fine, it's weather related. Chad's still well. We were going to have Karen play the Chadcation when do we think he went? But he was literally supposed to be back. So right now he's just at home. He's just. He's just. He's just working remote from home hanging out doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need something to do on these rainy. Oh, there you go. May I recommend great british.
Speaker 2:How many seasons are there? That's like six seasons.
Speaker 1:Well, so here's where I'm unclear is, um, I think that what we have available to us here in the states there are like seven, eight seasons, nine seasons actually, it's probably more than that, but in terms of, I mean, british bake-off has been happening for a long time and so I think that there are even more seasons imports on the way yeah, yeah, before it got really popular in the states, I think there's even more.
Speaker 1:Um, I could be wrong about that, but there's, there's a lot, a lot, there's a lot happening yep, well, and so that's one of the things.
Speaker 2:We had two big topics we wanted to talk about. This episode was going to come probably closer to the holidays, in kind of the thoughtfulness around the holiday season in ministry, new Year's and all the things. We know that Thanksgiving to New Year's and the life of a ministry family is whether you plan for it or not, it's a lot is, whether you planned for it or not, it's a lot. It's a lot going on because there is an increased demand on, maybe, ministry but for sure, the family calendar or school calendar or just like. There's just like a thousand things to go to, and so we wanted to just kind of rally and talk a little bit with you about some of our practices as a family. We don't always get it right, but this was, like our wisdom and like it was going to be, like you know, a true testimony. I wasn't just going to say things and have, like you know, you wonder if Karen can back us up on what they were talking about.
Speaker 1:I want to preface this part of the conversation by just saying if any of this comes across as Pinterest-y or any of that, that is not what this is. This is our attempt at sanity during the busy seasons that are inevitable in ministry and just in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these are not just curious things.
Speaker 2:So, karen, high school educator for a number of years, youth ministry staffer for a number of years, always talking about teenagers and things in rhythm so we have pretty much always had a family calendar, a church calendar and a school calendar, and so one of the things that's always been really important is to lay those out on an annual basis and try to figure out where those things like line up and do.
Speaker 2:One of the best things about having you in my life when it came to ministry work is that it was like a really close ear to the ground on like school calendar stuff of like big tests and events and things, or days off or actually, hey, spring breaks a year earlier this year. But one of the things that we have tried to embody the practice of is to not just like collate those for like big stuff, but on a weekly basis, like we have like a family meeting most of the time on Sunday nights. That's just kind of our rhythm and we are like laying it out like maps on the dining room table of like here is our battle plan for this week, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So big time. Um, and, and that is so much, part of that is this particular season of life that we're in. You know, we've got stuff going on at church and we've got two elementary school aged boys who are involved in activities now themselves and we have things going on and there are meetings and there are different things happening. I do some volunteer work, and so there are just a lot of moving parts, and I think that we definitely went through a season where we did not do this and everything always felt harried.
Speaker 2:It was just managed via text of like hey, can we do this or that, and it literally was almost like day to day.
Speaker 1:It was like oh, I didn't know you had that thing going on today. I wish I would have known that you had that going on today.
Speaker 2:We're making Tuesday night calls, tuesday morning at 9 am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was too much, and I think that that was a testament too to just how busy we both were, but that we did not. I don't think we had the foresight to think through, actually, if we got ourselves a little bit organized, even a little bit organized, that this would save a lot of, I think, frenetic energy stress anything. So essentially what we do and you said it on Sundays, we kind of call it the Sunday scaries.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But we sit down, we have a—.
Speaker 2:Scary meaning like let's make our week less scary.
Speaker 1:Yes. Not Sunday is like boo scary Right, but like we make it less scary on Sundays Not looking at the week ahead with a sense of dread and like, oh look, how scary this is. But really thinking about how can we make this less scary for ourselves, and so we sit down. One thing that we have done is we created a shared calendar on our phones.
Speaker 2:That was the yeah, really important big step our family calendar, like we have some paper calendar that's kind of a week-to-week calendar. The family calendar for us is digital. Yeah, like when things get added to the digital family calendar, whether that's a soccer game or a volunteer event or a church event, like if there's something already there, when you have to really like it's a hard conversation of like well, sorry, we already had this Tuesday night plan or whatever. That is the veto calendar. Yes, the shared Google Calendar is the veto calendar. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and we used to just have our own separate, individual Google Calendars on our phones Foolish calendars on our phones, foolish, foolish, especially when you have entered into life with another person and then you have kids that you're trying to manage. So that was a first important, big step was coming up with that shared phone calendar so that anytime that we add something, we make sure to add it to that family calendar so that the other person can see it. And there are definitely times when one of us will maybe not look at the phone calendar before we commit to something, and then it's like yeah, not to name names or point fingers but to name names by pointing fingers, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, but, but it happens again. It happens in the busyness of things and you're trying to juggle all these things, and so the shared phone calendar has been so helpful in having that kind of shared awareness of all that's going on. And so I have a wall calendar that I found that is hanging up and I update it on a weekly basis and it's a day-by-day. Here are the things that we have going on.
Speaker 1:It also has a place for you to keep a prayer list for the people that you're praying for, to set goals for your week, to choose a word for the week. Now do we fill out every one of those sections every week.
Speaker 2:No, put a little dinner list of knowing what's coming or like things to add to the shopping list. That one I love, because the boys don't have phones and so they don't have access. They don't have a a bead on what's happening, but they can see and get. Gideon is ours that, like you know, when, when we, we were going to go to the fair this fall, he wanted to make sure that fair day was on the family calendar. Put the fair on the family calendar, please and so we did he was counting it down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know and and, honestly, like I think that they kind of got to a point where you know parents, I think, are typically making all the plans and so, and then we're just kind of like bringing them along for the ride, but I think, get your shoes and're like where are we going? Why Get your shoes? I'm comfortable here at home. I did not know that we had something coming up, and so this actually brings them into the process too and makes it visible for them that they can, and the calendar is hanging at their eye level where they can kind of see it and they will, They'll stop and they'll look at it.
Speaker 1:So they have a sense. We'll bring them into that conversation on the weekends and be like, hey, here's what we got coming up this week and that has also helped so much to. You know, the rhythm's not the same every single week, but it does give them a sense of awareness of, oh, this is what's coming up.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think then that makes it less scary for them in the moment.
Speaker 2:So that's one of the things we wanted to share as you go into this fall. So our line as a family is plan the week, win the day, and I think that's such the shift and it happens in ministry life as well. I think sometimes we just kind of work Wednesday to Wednesday, instead of Wednesday over Wednesday or Sunday over Sunday, and I think, for your family, if you would commit the time in the ways in which, like that family meeting was not just a quick check-in but like a tactical battle plan of how we're going to allot our time, our money, our dinner, our rest, like that's one of the things that we've added.
Speaker 1:I was going to bring that up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, when we sit down and look at the calendar and the rare event when there is a day that there's nothing going on or we have a completely, free night at home protected. Like that's our signal to be like, oh my gosh, look at this and there's nothing planned. Don't plan anything for this night. Like the plan is, we're resting at home this last Saturday.
Speaker 2:it was literally. We got home from everything and it was like nope. The plan is, we are home from three until bedtime, and that's the plan.
Speaker 1:And it's such an exhale to say that we've been intentional with that rest time and thank goodness.
Speaker 2:And again some of that saying no to the thing Okay.
Speaker 2:So, karen, one of the things that I wanted to talk with you about this is part of the reason to have you on the show at some point, but we're going to do it right now, like tornadoes and weather be darned is talking about how your unique experience, I think, has massive relevancy, imminent relevancy, for those that are leading a student ministry.
Speaker 2:So you've been a teacher for 17, 18, 15 years in the classroom, 15 years teaching and the ways in which that you've taught at high school level, working with teenage students that's roughly 30 kids a year through five to six sections. Most years or so you you have had so if the average size youth group is like 32.3 students nationally you have had a cycle upon cycle of trying to find ways to connect meaningfully on an hour-to-hour basis with students, and so I think that parameter of working with that kind of classroom model, the pedagogy of connecting with 16 and 17 year olds, again the content you teach English language and literature but that environment, especially sometimes for those that are leading and they don't feel like they have a lot of help, they don't have a lot of paras or maybe even parent help or whatever.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, so help us connect some of the things. What would be some of the wisdom now in your role of, like, coaching up teachers? What are some of the things about that classroom management stuff that maybe we're missing? We have the seminary and the theological education. We have our fun activity degree from working with our youth ministry friends. But on the literal educational pedagogy side, like what are some of the wisdom that you would kind of help us kind of lever into as someone who has taught at church some and then professionally for many years?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I want to start by saying this that one of the things that you all talk about regularly on this podcast and that you've had so many wonderful people who are serving in local ministry talk about is the importance of the relational aspect of the work of youth ministry, and that's the exact same for the classroom. Yeah, because we're working with teenagers, we're working with kids, and it is incredible what you can or cannot accomplish with students when you are intentional with building relationships.
Speaker 2:In some ways, isn't that the capacity for how much we can actually be effective, is the relationship? It absolutely is. That relationship is the capacity for that. It absolutely is.
Speaker 1:You can be as knowledgeable in your content area, as skilled in your content area as anyone else in the world area, as skilled in your content area as anyone else in the world. But if you are not prioritizing building relationships with students, if you are not demonstrating to them that you are trustworthy, that you actually care about them and care about their learning and care about what's going on in their lives, then your expertise will only go so far with them and you really kind of have to face okay, what do I really hope to accomplish here?
Speaker 1:You know in my classroom context it was man. I want my students to develop a love of reading and writing, but I also want them to be able to engage with a complex text at a deep level. I want them to be able to think critically. I want them to be able to ask good questions. I want them to feel safe in grappling with man. I'm not fully understanding what I'm reading here, but I want to. And how do I get there?
Speaker 2:That sounds like a lot of our situation in youth ministry, in small group in particular, of an older, complex text that we want them to grapple with more and have big questions about, like genuine, sincere questions, and not just will I be graded on this kind of question, Right, no, so how do you help them engage with something that maybe feels far off from them or distant to them? Because I think that's one of the things in the barrier of teaching or Bible study leading whether that's small group or teaching to the room is that you are trying to bring contemporary connection, relevance, engagement to the thing that maybe is very misunderstood or very unfamiliar. Is very misunderstood or very unfamiliar. Biblical literacy is kind of one of the buckets of youth ministry conversation of like what do we do with kids that rarely or never read this thing that's so very important to us? How do we make inroads?
Speaker 1:Yeah, ooh, that is a good question. So, first of all, I think it's really important for those who are in youth ministry to really hone in on what are our goals and what do we hope to accomplish. I've talked to a lot of people who have said that their goal is we want our students to be experts at memorizing Scripture, and there are processes and routines that you can guide students through to memorize Scripture and to internalize those verses, and I think that that's a wonderful and worthy practice. I've talked to a lot of people who have said gosh, it's just so challenging to get students to care about the Bible and to get them to understand all that this you know sacred text contains. And I think about my own experiences growing up in youth ministry, and I had people who cared deeply about us on a relational level, but then, when it came to studying scripture, it was okay, tonight we're going to look at this passage and let's read it, and then let's talk about what you think about it, and then that was it.
Speaker 2:It was just the read and like what do you make of it? What do you think?
Speaker 1:of it and I think that that I mean all of Scripture is testimony and we want it's meant for us to take and to change our lives and to inform how we live our lives on a daily basis and a lot of it will evoke a feeling.
Speaker 2:I mean, we just spent last few Wednesdays with our teenagers at church talking about Psalms and how Psalms are in some ways, these kind of evocation or invitation to feel, whether it's songs of like worship or frustration or confession or anger or judgment, like that's kind of one of those like we talked about with our students, like when you don't know what to feel or you're caught up in your feelings, read Psalms, because Psalms kind of gives like a little bit of like a songbook and a pathway to our feelings. But there are some scriptures that are like historical or law or teaching and it's like what do you think about? Like how I feel about the sermon on the Mount may not be the most important thing about the sermon on the Mount.
Speaker 1:Well, and then there is so much to know about the like. So, taking your sermon on the Mount example, there is so much to know about the life of Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that informs that, that informs that that brings us to that moment of the Sermon on the Mount that I think we actually really care about students knowing and understanding, and so then the question is how do we get them there? So I hope that in my time in the classroom that one thing that I became skilled at navigating was how to guide students through the reading of a text, and so there are a lot of different approaches if we look at educational pedagogy and how to do that, but one of the simplest kind of processes that I can think of is three steps, and so those three steps are we love to teach and talk in three steps.
Speaker 2:Yes, we love the three-step process. Do they all start with the same letter?
Speaker 1:Three points, but truly I think, if we're talking about how to invite students into the reading of scripture but also engaging with it at a deep level and a deep level of understanding, that we can. This is one way to do it Not the only way to do it, but this is one way to do it. And those three steps are to activate their thinking, to engage them with the text and then to extend beyond the text. And so first let's talk about activate.
Speaker 2:Okay, number one activate. Activate yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes. So we want to activate their thinking, and this can include a lot of different things. So, when you have decided, okay, what is the passage that we're going to focus on? Are we? Are we working through a particular book of scripture? Um, once you decided on what the text actually is for the week, or the month or whatever your focus is.
Speaker 2:The pericope from my seminary friends. Okay, we're going to add that to the word list Pericope, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about then activating their thinking, look at that passage and think about what are the potential sticky points for them. Are there terms? Is there vocabulary? Are there terms? Is there vocabulary? Are there words in that passage? Are there people?
Speaker 2:or tribe, names that are often confusing and mispronounced.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean, and that's what makes scripture so complex to approach with teenagers or with kids?
Speaker 2:The history, the people, the biographies. There are names, there's geography, there is history upon history. Peter was Simon actually for a minute. Good grief there are so many things which is what makes Scripture so incredible. It's a library, not a book. Golly y'all.
Speaker 1:And I think you can't help but get excited and get emotional about it when you really start digging into it. But yes, so activating their thinking, are there terms they need to know? Do we need to give them any context?
Speaker 2:So you're talking like prep work Before we even crack on with like whatever the text is maybe doing, like a word bank thing the preliminary introduction, maybe finding the short resource or video or synopsis that instead of just jumping into first and second Kings, giving a little bit of like roadway on ramp of like why, why are there two Kings? And the book also has mentioned of 40 Kings Like yeah why it will be. Yeah, let's. Let's not jump into Lord of the Rings two towers without knowing that it was a full trilogy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, like I have heard, and that it was a full trilogy. Well, and so, like I have heard, how many times have I heard and I love this, I love this descriptor, but that you know, this is the greatest story ever told. But if that's kind of what we're, approaching it as golly, we got to get ready. We have some pre-reading to do.
Speaker 1:here we have some prep work to do, and I think that I want to say this about activating their thinking, but also about this entire process in general is I want you to have permission.
Speaker 1:Folks who are guiding teens through reading and studying scripture, I want you to have permission to take time, to take your time. I think it can feel there's so much to cover, there's so much that we want to give them in their limited time with us in youth ministry, and it can be easy to feel rushed in that work, to feel like we have to get to everything. There's no way for us to get to everything, and so I think that I hope that you can hear this as please take have permission to slow down and to take the time, because how special is it or would it be to also show students in this very fast world how we can slow down, especially with something as important as the Word, to take the time and to show them why it's important for us to slow down with it. Golly, look at all of these things that we need to know before we actually engage with the text.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that kind of challenge of limitation is really important for two reasons. One, I think it helps us to focus the effort in the time in which we have them, whether you have them once or twice a week, 60 to 90 minutes in person. It helps to limit that focus, but I think it also kind of lays on the table opportunities to connect the dots in between those times. We have talked about it on the podcast a lot and we just offer it again and again.
Speaker 2:Friends, like some of the best tools in ministry. That frustrates you are actually some of your greatest assets in connecting Sunday over Sunday through Instagram stories, through emails, through Facebook groups, through texts. You're gonna have to figure out which one works for your group in the season in which they're in, but there are ways to communicate out and connect dots in between that you don't have to wait for the next talk the next week to do some of that lifting of. You can do some of that pre-reading pre-sunday to give yourself more bandwidth to focus. I think it is. It's the learning tree of like knowing where to build out the things that we need and to be able to draw the things in. It's so, so important to use all the tools so that, in the time that we have, we don't feel frantic, we can feel focused.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I also think that we have a tendency to underestimate what students are capable of. Yeah, and so if we're talking about that activating, like what they need to know.
Speaker 2:These are kids studying algebra too. I mean, you have juniors that are like doing engineering and econ and psychology classes.
Speaker 1:Like I had juniors in high school who would spend their mornings or afternoons at our local tech school taking aviation classes, and by the time they graduated high school they were ready for entry level jobs with aviation companies.
Speaker 2:They're like rebuilding jet engines. Yeah, it's the truth. Even your nerdy kids are like piecing together pcs out of spare parts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's incredible, like, and so I think that one, we underestimate what they're capable of, and I think we also underestimate what they're hungry for and what they're thirsty for. Um, I think that, like you may have the the reaction of they don't care about those geographical locations that are being mentioned they don't care about. I would argue that they do and I would argue that making them like bringing them into that rich history and the layers of that in scripture actually will make them hungrier for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, that's what I was going to say. The activation part, one of the things that you were sharing that I want to make plain is this is a chance to create curiosity. Yes, yes, yes, yes, shows up four times in the Old Testament and this is like that trivia moment of like. Can you guess which right? This is the like again. Gamify the information. Have them, instead of just being like here it is, receive it. Have them go do that pre-work of figuring out like what was this word in the original Greek, instead of you just providing the Koine Greek Forum. Have them go do a little curiosity shopping and doing gamify. Add some points, put some teams together.
Speaker 2:Go on a scavenger hunt, yeah, like literally do some read-around stuff in scripture. Have them come in with some ideas and things Again activating. So classroom to gym metaphor, let's get them warmed up.
Speaker 1:Let's get them ready.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, so don't, don't just don't just consider this like the first 10 minutes of your talk no activation starts before they even hit the door yes and also okay.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned, like okay, the example of this mountain appears four times yeah also. Are we making that visible? Yeah, for them. I've always had. I always had this dream in my classroom and I never did it but if, and I never actually watched the tv show Homeland, but there was. There were always jokes about on Homeland that there was like a big like bulletin board and there were pins and suspects and they were like connecting string, you know, between them to all those things.
Speaker 1:Like what, if we did that and made it visible for them that, oh my gosh, let's trace this, you know scripture to this. Oh, and look at it, there it is again, because you taught me the phrase like scripture rhymes yeah, that. Oh my gosh, this thing appeared here and there it is again.
Speaker 2:The line of David, again, again. Never skip the genealogies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, golly, as much as I wanted to. I was shocked at how much.
Speaker 2:I love the genealogy the genealogies are tiny biographies, they are trying to tell you stories and so, but you don't know that until you kind of build that again, that learning tree of knowing the names when they show up again and again. You're like aha, the shorthand. And so, in the same way that you love that, don't just share what you've learned, share what you love and that activation is so important okay. Okay, Karen, that's activation number one. Okay, so activate.
Speaker 1:Then we move on to engage. So then we want to engage them with the text, and that's actually reading the text. So we've activated their thinking, we've made them aware of some of the most important things for them to know so that they can engage with the text at a deeper level. So then we actually get them reading the text, and so the important part about this is that we give them more than one opportunity to read the text.
Speaker 2:We don't just read it before we preach and then we're done.
Speaker 1:No, no, and we don't just read it with them and say, okay, what did we think about that? We can read it once and maybe ask that question, but then we need to go through and read it again and I would even say read it a third time. And that also involves us slowing down a little bit and making space and time for us to do that. There has been so much research done with reading and the reading process that the first time that you read something, our brains are literally just kind of getting we're working, we're reading to comprehend.
Speaker 2:Just trying to finish it. We're just reading to finish.
Speaker 1:We're reading to complete and we're reading to comprehend, so do I even did I understand at a basic level what I'm reading here, and if you do that activation work beforehand, that will go a long way to helping with that comprehension part. That was the mountain we talked about there. It is. And so then, after a first reading, two questions that I always love to ask my students was, what did you notice?
Speaker 1:And what do you wonder? So, what did you notice? Did you notice that, oh, there's that mountain again, um, oh, there's that mountain again, or there's that um, there's that person again jesus keeps saying blessed are the over and over it's like, is that?
Speaker 2:is that like a thing? What is that what? Why does he keep doing?
Speaker 1:that yeah, like oh. I noticed that this phrase was repeated over and over again or oh, I noticed this, I noticed that yeah, um, and then also which?
Speaker 2:are high interest, low stakes questions, which is such a dramatic shift of what did you think it meant? Like that's high, high stakes, high interest. We were looking for the high interest, low stakes where they're allowed to maybe get it wrong, because they were just curious yes, and then what's really cool too, is that if one student voices, I noticed this then what often happens is that another student would say I noticed that too, and so then not only are we encouraging them to read scripture individually?
Speaker 1:but then it becomes that corporate practice for them of oh, we're reading this together and oh, we noticed the same things. And so then the second question was what did you wonder? So what questions?
Speaker 2:Yeah, give us a little more lens on the difference between notice and wonder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so notice is, this is what I saw. What did you wonder is what questions were popping up in your mind, and that question may have been like what does that mean? Or who's this guy. What happened to him? Yeah, what does that mean? Yeah, or who's this guy?
Speaker 2:What happened to him? Yeah, what is that? Where did he come from? Where did that come from? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that to your curiosity point like that, then if they're, if they start asking those wonderings, yeah. That piques curiosity.
Speaker 2:Why are the little boys the only one who had lunch? Did none of these grown people have lunch? Yes, again, we don't have all the specific details in scripture, but that's a wonderful question to hear from a middle school or junior mind.
Speaker 1:Sure Well, and that might give them then license to ask was it actually like two loaves and kind of getting into those? What kind of loaves are we talking?
Speaker 1:here, Because really, like they're wondering those, they're asking those questions in their own minds and so this gives them space and safety, I think, to ask some of those questions that they're thinking about. And then same thing with the noticings If one student voices this, wondering that they had, or this question that they had, somebody else may have had that question. This like wondering that they had, or this question that they had, somebody else may have had that question.
Speaker 1:And then it's like, oh okay, I wasn't alone in not understanding that or in wondering this particular thing, and then it becomes once again that beautiful corporate practice.
Speaker 2:Again, the corporate practice isn't just in the isolated personal response, feeling or interpretation. I think this is. You wrestle with it too. I think that's one of the things, ministry friend, that like we don't want scripture reading to just be. How does it make me feel? Or what did I think?
Speaker 2:A 14-year-old mind doesn't know what they know or don't know about this, but finding those inroads into wonder, amazement, noticing and curiosity. What is the nice right, noticed, interest, curious or experience? The idea is that there is more to ask than just what does it mean for me? I think sometimes we get to this highly individualized, personalized, and there are some moments of application. No doubt that's where many of our sermons and teachings wind up to send us. But the study of Scripture that really is going to bring about that curiosity and maybe even that discipline or practice at home, because I think that's the hunger that we have for them is that they would want to, in between the times that they're with us, be in the word. That's not going to happen because you kept giving them the thing and telling them what it meant, but creating these opportunities for them to really engage with, explore more and ask those questions.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that the more I mean, I think this about anything in my life, the more that I feel knowledgeable about something, the more likely I am to share it with somebody else. And so then, if we're talking about you know, if our desire is, then for students to share scripture with their peers, with their families, with other people in their lives, will they do that if they're only engaging with it at a surface level and they're only applying it to themselves, or are we really encouraging them to learn about all the richness that's in there?
Speaker 2:that would then turn them into like mini experts in this for a time, or at least build their confidence in sharing it so that they would share it with other people that was the word that I was going to say is, I think, the confidence building. I think sometimes we have them again. Scripture memory is important to recall the rote, the having it in our mind, having it on our lips, but the confidence that when they pick up scripture or someone has a question, we do this, I think, in an apologetic sense of like, what does it mean for our faith? But I think one of the things that youth ministry opportunities provide is the right size learning environment, scaffolding, leveling, that all of us here are about the same age with similar questions, that we can grow in our confidence together. And for your adult leaders, they should have a good confidence to at least impart some of those practices and studies for their students. So okay, we've activated, we've engaged. What is number three? Give us step number three.
Speaker 1:So step three is extend. So we've built the background knowledge.
Speaker 2:We have read the text, preferably multiple times, because also you can discover and maybe in fun ways too, I think, not just instead of reading it, reading it. Reading it, maybe it is, read it out loud, read it to yourself, maybe read it in a pair.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Or listen to it. That's one of the things that you always do. Is you like? You love to listen to scripture in the kitchen? Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:I'm also like reading it in the round. Like each person, take a line and just like go line by line and read it in the round. Yeah, there are so many different ways that you can that you can have them read it together and then to mix it up so that it's not just okay. Now let's read it the second time.
Speaker 2:Listen to me say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are so many different options there, and so then the third step is extend, and this is ultimately you know what is—we want students to understand what is being shared in the scriptures, so that then they will consider and think about how will this then change how I live my life? How I live my life?
Speaker 1:How does this my reading of this extend beyond this couch that I'm sitting on with my friends in the youth room. But how does this change my life? How does this change my decision-making? How does this inform how I treat others? How does this radical, life-changing message of salvation and testimony. How does this then—?
Speaker 2:What can be drawn out of the well?
Speaker 1:How does this inform my living? That's good. That's good.
Speaker 2:And so what are some strategies here? Um, you know unlikely connections, because in you know the study of American lit which you taught for a number of years or just any of the other classics.
Speaker 2:This is where some kids are like, yeah, I mean, I read it, but I don't really get what it means. Like, what are some of the things you do, uh, from a classroom perspective, um, to help students? Uh, what are the tools, what are the questions, what are the work to help extend, maybe, what felt like an area of disinterest into an area of high interest or application?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, I can't help but read scripture and then be changed by it, and I think that it's good to talk to students about that, about this isn't just a book, this isn't just a text, and I think that our earlier steps of thinking about activating that knowledge, reading it multiple times, I think that that is so, so, so important. But you might be feeling that, okay, well, this seems very scholarly, or do kids really want to be in school again when they're at youth group, and how does it feel this way? But the real life-changing element of scripture is that what's in there should change the way that we live our lives. And so then you know, whereas before we may have read the passage once and then say, okay, well, what do you think about it? Okay, well, go out and apply this this week.
Speaker 2:Um, when students Blessed are ye who is poor in the spirit.
Speaker 1:my friends, Um and again. I think the intentions there are good, I think that all of the intentions are good. But then do students feel empowered in a deep understanding of what they've just read, to the extent that it then shapes their day-to-day lives? And I know that that is what Scripture has done for me in that deep study of it and that I still to this day when I'm reading through things. I find I continue to find new things that show me just how much my life has changed in walking with the Lord and learning from Him and learning about the life of Jesus and how he walked and lived on this earth and then how I should then live out and walk my life on earth. That's good.
Speaker 2:And again, sometimes that broader understanding and connection allows us to probe more deeply. I have one more question for you. This is a little bit on the spot, but it served for many years as a youth ministry spouse and a volunteer leader in small groups and teaching circles and worship ministry and women's ministry. What is something that you would want youth ministry leaders to know that someone who has only sat at the Sunday night dinner and planning family table for 15, 17 years that could know like? What would you want them to know?
Speaker 1:Um, I think that God, I said it earlier but I think taking time, um, feeling um that taking whatever time is needed, um all for your families, is so important. I think in ministry work it can be so easy because the work that y'all are doing is service work, it is selfless work. It is tiresome work at times, but I think it can be really easy to fall into the practice of well, I got to do this, this is another good opportunity, so I got to do it. I got to do it. I can't let these kids down, I can't let this kiddo down. You know, like on and on and on and on.
Speaker 1:But the more time that you give to rest, to your own personal study of Scripture, to being refreshed, you'll be so much more effective and, I think, joyful in your work with those students. But then also then, when you are with those students during that joyful time on Wednesdays or Sundays or any other time, to feel that I know that our time with them is limited when they are in our student ministries, but it is okay to slow down, to take time, to be intentional with them, with building relationships with them, but also in guiding them through the study of the Word and helping them to, just to know that we are all reading through and studying and trying to figure it out as much as we can, but that if we don't allow the time for that, then we may not quite get there. And so time taking time is good, and I hope that you will feel somewhat liberated in that.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much. This has been a fun episode talking about ways to take the time, to make the time to engage more deeply with your students, and it's our hope, on behalf of the working family here at Youth Ministry, booster, that you would have a blessed season with your family this season and we'll see you back next week. Snap booster, that you would have a blessed season with your family this season and we'll see you back next week. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of the adventure booster podcast. If you want to learn more about what karen shared today, make sure to check the show. Note Links below will have more examples, questions and ideas for you as you engage with your students more deeply in their study of Scripture, theology and community worship. Be blessed, friends. We are so thankful for all of our youth ministry friends and the ways in which you serve, especially in these busy holiday seasons. So take heart, take note and be prayerful as we anxiously, without an ass, adventage, adventagiously, advent, adventfully wait for our Savior this season. We'll talk to you soon.
