Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
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Youth Ministry Booster
Youth Ministry & Preaching Today w/ Anthony Vargas
What can football teach us about youth ministry and preaching?
"What can football teach us about youth ministry and preaching? In this episode, we dive deep with Anthony Vargas as he shares his journey from Mississippi to Dallas, and finally to Yukon, Oklahoma, exploring the valuable lessons he's learned along the way.
Anthony opens up about the challenges and rewards of starting fresh in new ministry roles. He shares practical tips on relationship-building, understanding the community you're serving, and the importance of moving at the right pace. We also discuss how feedback from students and volunteers is crucial for effective leadership.
We delve into the art of training and mobilizing Christian students for leadership and evangelism. Anthony emphasizes the need for regular training sessions, engaging young leaders, and the importance of casting a clear vision for adult leaders. Plus, we explore innovative approaches to youth ministry preaching, including how to use interactive methods and technology to keep students engaged.
If you're looking to enhance your youth ministry with fresh perspectives on leadership, communication, and preaching, this episode is packed with actionable insights that will help you connect with students and craft sermons that resonate in today's fast-paced, digital world."
A snap, anthony. Yes, sir, what's up buddy?
Speaker 1:How's it going? How's it going, how's?
Speaker 2:it going Dude. Thanks for making the drive on a Saturday. That's right, weekend warrior man, we're going to hang out. We're going to record in the garage today, on a Saturday, anthony, how was the drive up?
Speaker 1:Oh it was so good Simple, easy drive. But you know, this is youth ministry youth ministry.
Speaker 2:But it's the right season for it, man. It's college football season, which means sneak in that rest time, fun time, tv time. We're going to get this thing knocked out before all the games kick off this afternoon.
Speaker 1:I'm missing college game day for this no that's okay, we're going to finish on time.
Speaker 2:I promise we're going to finish on time. We're going to get the kickoff. It's going to be great. You can make your predictions. It'll be so, so good Roll tide. Oh okay, starting off very aggressive. So, anthony, college football allegiances, let's go ahead and divide the audience. Who are you for? Why did you end up that way? Why are you the way you are?
Speaker 1:Let me just say this Nick Saban is the GOAT of college football. Well, I'm born and raised in Mississippi and I lived on the state line of Alabama.
Speaker 2:Oh so you had a choice, you had a choice, I had a choice.
Speaker 1:Everybody else went for Alabama, so I wanted to be a winner too. Okay, so I just hopped on and I started driving the bandwagon. And now we're here.
Speaker 2:Are you like a Yankees fan too?
Speaker 1:Is that? Like Yankees and Patriots and all that Dodgers, dodgers.
Speaker 2:Picking winners. Who was good. I know that for a lot of our folks, like this is, um, this is the changing of the seasons, right, like this, this is the like from summer to fall. Um, whether it's college football, saturday or Friday night lights. Like this is a measure of a feeling of the seasonal shift in youth ministry. So, uh, man, are you, are you ready? Like I know that you are serving in Yukon, oklahoma, which means Mustang Yukon, not always perennially awesome in football, but what does Friday Night Lights look like for y'all?
Speaker 1:Oh man, it's fun. Let's just say this Friday Night Lights is electric.
Speaker 2:It is. It's either electric Win or lose.
Speaker 1:It's either electric or entertaining, to say the least, and Oklahoma football man is something else I'm starting to learn.
Speaker 2:Dude, can we just talk about like? I mean, I know that Texas and Bama and Georgia have some strong programs. Oklahomans take it pretty seriously.
Speaker 1:They take it pretty seriously.
Speaker 2:As someone who like transplanted in because you did Texas for a while and then now you're here Like I mean, it's a different thing, right I'm starting to learn the culture a little bit.
Speaker 1:But yeah, just seeing them do two-a-days practicing getting ready. I'm in the locker rooms in Mustang I mean they got culture. The coach is all in and you better just work it all out and be all in when lifting weights and stuff. So it's pretty fun. But I went to a practice the other day and some teams look better than others and they were practicing field goals.
Speaker 2:And the kicker, you know, an unimportant part of every team. Again, whether you're a kicking team or not, it's important.
Speaker 1:Win or lose the game. Man the kicker kicked the ball, hit a lineman in the back, so they still got some work to do.
Speaker 2:That being said, Just like happy Gilmore to him. Just like smashed him in the back of the ball. Oh man.
Speaker 1:So yeah, a little coaching needed. A little coaching needed.
Speaker 2:What is? I mean someone that's in the locker rooms with teams. What are some of the things that are just like noticings about coaches and players that are like ministry, curious to you Because I feel like there's like certain like overlapping, like the little diagrams of like three circles, like not all coaches are ministers, not all ministers are coaches Sure sure there is an overlap, there is some overview, there's something there.
Speaker 2:So what are some of those things? What are you looking for, like, oh man, that guy's going to be a good coach. What are some of the things when you listen to him, like pep talk, or do you're like, oh man, that's going to be a good coach?
Speaker 1:That's listening. Okay, everybody's listening to the leader. There's got to be a leader that believes in it believes in them and that he has values too. When it comes to the locker room. Like everybody's strong, we're a winner. They say this all the time. What's our standard? And everybody says excellent.
Speaker 2:Excellent coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%, yeah, yeah, yeah, they got culture, they got values and everybody's just locked in man.
Speaker 2:That's a good word for the body of Christ, well, and again, I think it's one of those too like, especially for like us, like students can acknowledge it, can see it, Like there are moments in their life where they see the focus, they see the conviction, like the belief, the standards, the values Come on.
Speaker 2:It matters and like the belief, the standards, the values. Come on, it matters. It matters. Well, man, you were so kind, you brought your family today. They're hanging out, that's right. There is a one in four chance that a kid under the age of eight may run in and just check on us. I love it and we're super excited about it.
Speaker 2:So, dude, thank you for sharing your family today and spending some time with us don't know you One of the reasons that you're here is because you literally are here in Oklahoma now and we got connected through some different things. Tell us a little bit about man, just like where you're at now, because I want to ask some questions about what it's like to start new, new season, new things. There's a lot of our listeners that may be at their church for less than a year. I know that you've been there for a year and a half couple of years now. So, like, tell us where you're at and what it's like to be new at a place, cause you're not new to ministry. You've been around for a minute but you're relatively new to where you're serving now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, new to where I'm serving now, cause I'm born and raised Mississippi and 25 years man went to Mississippi state and I did before I moved from Mississippi to Dallas. I did youth ministry for five years, then went to a seminary in Dallas but also did youth ministry there and about a little over a year ago got a phone call about UConn, oklahoma. Had to look it up. That's right. Where is UConn Oklahoma?
Speaker 2:UConn America is what they say what is a UConn America?
Speaker 1:That sounds like Alaska, yeah yeah, I'm thinking University of Connecticut.
Speaker 2:Oh, there it is. Yeah, go Huskies.
Speaker 1:Had to look it up and eventually just had a conversation about what it would look like me coming there to be a youth pastor and just began praying about it with my wife, and we accepted a call of God on our life to move everything we knew. My wife's eight months pregnant at the time. That's right.
Speaker 1:And we left and moved to Yukon and it's been an incredible year in Oklahoma. We love it so much, 20 minutes west of OKC. Just being a new guy, I haven't experienced that in a while. It was just everything. All the memories from moving from Mississippi to Dallas rushed back, having to build something again, having to start fresh again, having to learn new things, and so it's been a year of learning, growing and just being a part of a new family.
Speaker 2:What are some of the things that you would give as wisdom for somebody like the Mississippi to Texas, the Texas to Oklahoma? What are some of the things about being new? Would you encourage someone who's in a new maybe not brand new to ministry, but in a new role? Like? These are some of the questions you should be asking, or some of the things you should be pulling together Like cause. It can feel like a lot, so like what are the ways, what are the priorities for you? If you had to do it again, like what were, the things you would recommend is like these are the like, the top few things that you need to do when you're new?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Well, I will say I've learned things that you can do well, but I've also learned things that you shouldn't do at all in the first few months.
Speaker 2:So I would just say I like a cautionary tale. What are some things that we should not do?
Speaker 1:Well, I think it goes back to the priority of youth ministry and it has to be. If it's on your job description or not, relationships, relationships, relationships. The greatest commodity we have in ministry is a stewardship of people. We're in the people business, so when it comes to youth ministry, it's all about knowing your sheep. And I would just say this I think I got this right. In the couple of times I had to transition to a new place is learning the names of people. I received a lot of affirmation, encouragement, compliments. Man, this guy knows our name and honestly, it took a lot of behind the scenes of looking at rosters, praying over names, affiliating with family members and just knowing the people's names so that a couple of weeks in I can call you by name.
Speaker 1:That honestly moves the needle faster than you think when it comes to the relationship side of things.
Speaker 2:So, more than anything else, actually knowing the people and I think that can be really overlooked, like you're like, well, here's the things that we're going to do and what we're going to make happen, but that is because that's the catch-up work, right, like that's the thing that, like when you're new, you've been practicing, the thing that you can do, the thing that you haven't been able to practice until you get into the situation is to know the actual people that you're serving and so to be able to know as many parents and families and students by name as quickly as possible, like is I mean, I don't know that that feels like a fresh work that maybe we can forget if you've served one place for too long as you're like.
Speaker 2:Well, I just I know everybody, I know everybody, and so, being new that way, what are, what are some other things that you would do or not do?
Speaker 1:So I would say this uh, you don't want to change anything so fast.
Speaker 2:Okay, but like okay, people say that, but give us a timeline, so you've been there a year. Have you changed some things?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:I will say this Everybody says don't, and then it's like well, here's a couple things that we did. Yeah, sure, sure.
Speaker 1:One of the things I did going into this new role is survey the people Ask them.
Speaker 2:Okay, put it on them, that's right that's right.
Speaker 1:Everybody has a voice in this youth ministry. I want to hear their heart. I want to hear their. I'm not necessarily looking for your opinion, right, sure, but I want to hear any sort of feedback that might help move the ball down the field, if you will.
Speaker 2:Okay, I surveyed the students and in a different survey I gave the adult volunteers, the leaders of the ministry, a voice.
Speaker 1:What's their take? Yeah, yeah. So I asked questions like hey, what do you like most about? You know together, we students, what do you? What's something that you want to change that will help us all? And those things that I saw were low hanging fruit to change immediately, that I didn't come in looking to change stuff, but I saw something everybody was in agreement to. We need a leader to solve this issue.
Speaker 2:Maybe some of the unsaid things were like. I don't know. I think for some folks trying to identify not just the thing they're saying but like the value behind it, right. Like it may not be like they may not be mad about the camp location. They may be mad about like, like how camp has been planned. Or it may not be that like we don't want to do events or lock-ins, it's just that like we didn't get enough communication about it, or whatever so.
Speaker 1:So just to give an example like uh, it's not, they don't like the curriculum. Uh, because it was just too hard to understand the curriculum when it was given the morning of right, it's.
Speaker 2:It's too much to read six pages five minutes before we start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you give it.
Speaker 2:give that bad boy on to me on a Tuesday. Let's change the process a little bit. I've got a chance, that's right.
Speaker 1:They can actually talk and know what they're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's one of the things is just, you don't want to change everything too fast, but on the other side of that, the flip side of the coin, I would say this you know, if we're afraid of change, I think that's a missed opportunity to see growth. So don't be afraid to change things, but just don't go in there like a tyrant and say I'm going to change this whole place.
Speaker 2:Well and make it your change. I think that's one of the things that you've named is like, if it's coming from the survey, it's not my change, it's. This is what we've heard when we've asked.
Speaker 2:That's such an important piece because man, all growth requires change. Like growth means change Like something is different about what you do and who you are. And if that's been again for a lot of folks in a new role and a new position in church, probably one of the reasons you got asked into that was not to just keep everything like it is, because if they just wanted it like it is, I mean they wouldn't have asked you. But even by asking you it's something new. And so that's an important piece.
Speaker 2:So, what are some reflections now? It's been a little over a year or so. Like what are some things that like man I'm so glad that this is different or I just, we see, maybe into like what. What's like? The next wave of stuff is Sure, uh.
Speaker 1:Well, one of the things I'm I'm just most excited about is that we shifted from a student pastor ministry to a student ministry. Uh've empowered and equipped students to do the work of the ministry and the Bible teaches that we got to equip the saints and I think one of the things I've just grown in throughout the years is leading through people. You know, back 10 years ago in youth ministry I was a do-it-all. I'm the guy I'm going to do everything right.
Speaker 2:But now I have a lot of energy, I'll just expend all of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I put my family on the altar for the sake of it right. It's just, you're a young go-getter-driven type of dude, but over the years I've just grown in my leadership and I've learned okay, I can do more through others. We can accomplish the vision, the mission through other people, not just by myself. So I think one of the most things I'm excited about the most is moving forward.
Speaker 1:We've got a bigger team a student leadership team, a Together we team that can help grow the ministry, because healthy things grow and we want to see that. So I think, over the next year and the future is just building that team up, making sure we're empowering others to do what they're called to do, equipping them with the tools in their tool belt to get it done, and just celebrating the wins as we go.
Speaker 2:So I think, that's what we're most excited for. Well, that's one of the things we wanted to talk about today, because this is, I think, the season. We've posted about it in our booster network, we've talked about it with some other friends, but one of the things I know about you and I've seen evidence of is the willingness and the committedness to mobilize students beyond just showing up every week, because I think that's always the tension is like there's a lot of youth ministry leaders that want more out of their kids. That's secretly. What they want is just them to attend more frequently. Yeah, but there's something that we've talked about a lot and I want just for you to share with our folks. Like, what are some of the ways in which you're doing that? What are some of the things that, like the trust it takes that to happen? But like, how are you cause? You've named it, you do it, you lead through teams. How are you mobilizing students beyond just like the weekly? Like hey, make sure to come back next Wednesday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Well, we do have a student leadership team, for sure, that does a lot of serving in the local church. But as the influence team what we call it I tell them, man, leadership is influence, and God has given you leadership, influence on your school campus, not only to be a bringer and invite people to come and see what God's doing, but also to mobilize you. And I tell them all the time you are a Christian student, right, you're a missionary on your campus. The number one goal is not to get an A or to get a touchdown that's a part of it, right, but the first thing you got to remember is that you're mobilized on your campus to reach other people.
Speaker 1:I think one of the ways we've equipped our students to have this mindset is to teach them what does it look like to navigate real-time conversations and transition them into gospel conversations. I mean, I'm telling you from opener you know how to get a conversation started, to transition statements that you could use, to even developing a reach list, to begin praying for your friends. Those are the things we're trying to teach our younger students now, because I just believe, if we get this younger generation now with the habitual items of you know praying for people, opening up conversations, telling people about Jesus. Then, in 10, 20 years from now, our world's going to change, because they're going to do it in the workplace too.
Speaker 2:Okay, so walk us through that a little bit, because one of the things is the practice of man. How do we talk? What do we say? Where does that happen? Is that happening in leadership team meetings? Is that happening in small groups? Like, where are some of these conversations around? I mean, we'll talk about more about preaching in a minute but, like, where are some of the things related to opening students up, training, doing practicing? Where does that stuff happen at?
Speaker 1:So everywhere. Everywhere Okay, good, good good, but specifically we just did an influence team training. We do training a couple times a year and our last training we went to the downtown library. Okay, in OKC, like the Shhh, there's Books kind of library.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't recommend it because I forgot that the library is a public place, so there's a lot of people there. Oh yeah, man Like homeless, but there's a lot of people there like homeless people outside.
Speaker 2:It's a thoroughfare for all kinds of folks. It was sketch. It was sketch.
Speaker 1:So next time I'll have them sign a liability form. But anyways, so we rented out a room.
Speaker 2:You can come hang out at our Walmart here if you want.
Speaker 1:Come on.
Speaker 2:Dude, our Walmart's a mission field, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:We rented out a room, a space. It was super nice I super nice, I mean but we just gathered our team together. It was about 60 students and we just had real-time gospel training. How to evangelize how to talk about your faith, how to share your testimony. And just did it in the library, together in a room.
Speaker 2:But off campus, like not on Wednesday night program, whatever, like off campus for those that were interested.
Speaker 1:No way they can leave the library and share with the homeless people.
Speaker 2:I mean do something that were interested. All right, they can leave the library and share with the homeless people. All right, I mean do something there you go, pray as you go, come on pray as you go.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we do that in our trainings, our small groups. We'll talk about it too and have opportunities for them to share Preaching from stage. I mean we preach it to death. I feel like we keep.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll come back to that, because that is one of the areas that talking with you I think is a giftedness of you, for sure, but also, I think, an area of interest, especially as we go into, like the rhythm of a school year. Sure, how do your adult leaders respond to this? Because that's one of the things I think sometimes, as a youth minister, we can have a real passion and desire for, like we want this from our students, and our adults are like, yep, but you're asking the adults to participate and help with this as well. So what does that look like to, again, those small group leaders, those adult team members? How do you get them not just bought in but helping out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say number one vision leaks If I'm continually casting vision to my student staff, every week on my agenda is his personal evangelism Leadership down. That's right it starts with the top. I'm asking hey, what gospel conversations have you had this week? So I'm starting there and our leader rallies every Sunday. We're celebrating wins of evangelism that conversations are happening.
Speaker 2:And the rally is staff and volunteers Sunday morning before 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:before we start I go over anything, I need to communicate, celebrate and coaching.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So they're constantly hearing wins of evangelism.
Speaker 2:Okay, across the whole team. So not just from stage, but like as a team, as a team Hearing the win as a team. Okay, what's?
Speaker 1:happening in your small group. You know what's happening in your personal life and uh, I also invite them, involve them to our mission trips, our share days and things that we do real time evangelism. So it's not just students, we're we're inviting adults to be a part of it too. So it's really cool to see uh, an adult alongside of uh, uh, them, a small group, a student, uh, see them just give the example of what it looks like. So that's how I'm doing it. I'm just bringing them alongside the journey. It can't be just staff-led, it's got to be together.
Speaker 2:That's good, so that's good. Well, tell us a little bit more. You mentioned it and I think it's important to talk about. The school year is great because it is a rhythm, yeah, and one of the work right Getting to teach or to preach or to speak or to communicate. Call it what you want, slice it however you need to. Prepping and preparing Like this is one of the sites that most folks cash vision from like to the students, to the ministry.
Speaker 2:This is what we're about. This is what I want you to know. It's content and information, but, like man, it's. What does that look like for you? Like, what have you learned is important about preaching and teaching specifically to your students? Like what is the most important elements?
Speaker 1:Like what's actually happening. Come on, go back to what Ben Trueblood teaches. Okay, the experience conference was amazing. I'll still go back to that. Trueblood teaches too. The experience conference was amazing.
Speaker 2:I still go back to that.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I've been preaching over a decade but I think one of the most vital elements even Ben Trueblood says you communicate more offstage than you do onstage. It's all about building the trust, offstage, relationships, the relational deposit, the equity. You need that before you go on stage Now, if you're in youth ministry and you're just living for the platform, I got to tell you Just want that mic man.
Speaker 2:I got stories, I need people to hear them. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:If you're calling people out for. So I would just say this it's all about relationships. Man, you preach more in the conversations than you do on the platform, but I mean, I've learned a ton. I learned a ton on what I've done wrong in the past when it comes to preaching and things that I could get better at. You know, there's two sides of preaching. It's the hermeneutics, right. It's the time in the office. Some of us don't like this because you know we're going in the gold mine, we're digging, it's hard work.
Speaker 2:Hoping to find something right. Sometimes it feels like man, I got nothing.
Speaker 1:Come on, come on, Been there I blank page. You stare at it. Right, you got the hermeneutical side, but then you got the homiletics, right. The art of actually preaching the content. So there's a couple of things I've learned in youth ministry and I say we've got to start with what is it? The pathos right. You've got the audience. That has to be a key aspect of your preaching, you've got to know your sheep.
Speaker 2:Here's a sheep.
Speaker 1:I know it's a generation with an attention span deficit. Not a fault to them, it's just they've grown up with technology and it takes them about eight seconds to dictate if they're going to watch this YouTube video or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they're deciding before the skip hits. That's right. Come on come on, and you are too. Before we get too judgmental.
Speaker 1:So you got to know that you only got so long with an open Bible, that they're going to listen to you. And that first minute if I can just give this encouragement to anybody that's new at preaching that first minute is your most important minute, dude. Come on, come on. You've got to reel them in such a way to provide some sort of tension, pain point problem where it gets them.
Speaker 2:Here's the stakes. Here's why it even is worth listening to yes, Like here's why it even is worth listening to yes.
Speaker 1:You want to pull them on the edge of their seat to say I've got to listen to this guy. I've got to listen to him If they hear you week after week, you've got to reset it week after week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:So that first minute is the most important minute. So when you're in your office and you're prepping and you're seeing the Scripture come to light, whether you've got a scope and sequence of the year. Our team developed ours. We picked four books, outlined the books.
Speaker 2:Let's go ahead and be clear Most of that is to help your prep than it is for students' retention.
Speaker 1:Let's just go ahead and say it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's cool and it's savvy, and when you get really clever and creative, it's good.
Speaker 1:It's more. To help you. The students are showing up. Sure by right or no? Yeah, You're spot on bro.
Speaker 2:We're like no guys, and then we're going to move from this to that. Okay, Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they remember all of it. They probably do, but it's meant to help you.
Speaker 1:Come on, come on. So you're getting that sermon ready and you got to have the candle, the lamp, the lo-fi beats right. Hold on, Okay, no take.
Speaker 2:We're here, we're in the moment. Take us through your process. You said it, you teased it. Do you have an environment?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a ritual. Okay, come on Tell us.
Speaker 2:We talk about ritual prep and coffee a lot, so bring it in, because I have to.
Speaker 1:my environment is key to prepping a message. I'm turning that light switch off, putting the lamp on, so at the office.
Speaker 2:You're at the office.
Speaker 1:I'm at the office. You're doing the work at the office Because some folks are off-site.
Speaker 2:Some folks sermon off-site and then do office work on-site.
Speaker 1:I do it wherever I can. But if I'm in the office, it's light switch off, it's a lamp on, I've got the candle lit and I've got lo-fi beats playing. I've got a timer on my phone. Oh, that will not allow me. It's an app call force. Yeah yeah, yeah, it won't allow me to use any other app. Okay, I've got to grow the tree. Okay, so it's a Pomodoro technique basically yeah yeah, those five elements are in place before my pen hits the paper.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh, and it's a pen too. You go handwritten. Sometimes that's a phrase.
Speaker 1:It's really a marker hitting a whiteboard. Oh okay, I have a sermon prep checklist. I go through one, through 17 steps. Oh okay, I've mastered this thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, I've mastered this thing. This is why you're on today. This is why you showed up. See everybody. The other stuff was just like this, is it? This is why we're here.
Speaker 1:Well, I've learned. When I was in Mississippi doing youth ministry, I was teaching three times a week.
Speaker 2:You've got to master the craft.
Speaker 1:You've got to master the craft.
Speaker 2:And you've got to get more efficient. That's right. Biggest pet peeves right now is youth ministry friends that have been doing this for decades that they talk about. It still takes them pick a number as long as it did whenever they started yeah dude, you've got to be getting faster you better, you got some weeks are hard, but on average, like your, your mile time should improve as you train more I would.
Speaker 1:I would hope you got to get more efficient. Come on, I'm all about it, but 17 point checklist.
Speaker 2:Uh, do walk, walk us through.
Speaker 1:So the five in the office yeah, pen it's I like that you're on the whiteboard to start oh, have to be on the whiteboard freeing yes, so uh so much more freeing than an open word doc.
Speaker 2:Open word doc is like oh, this is never gonna happen, okay hey, I will say this you can.
Speaker 1:You can edit a bad page, you can't edit a blank page get, get to writing.
Speaker 2:Come on, stop being a perfectionist and get to writing.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I'm starting with the scripture and I think the easiest thing. I always thought what is the next step? And that's why I have a checklist now, because I always was asking okay, what's the next step now? So when I read the passage multiple times different translations I'm listing out every truth I can find in that one passage. So if I list out seven truths that I have to have a verse that supports the truth I listed out. I'm listing out all the truths, I'm looking at them as a whole. What is the one truth my pathos needs to be inspired by? And as I get the main point, andy Stanley would say you go for one target statement. As I get that, I wrap the whole message around it. I don't think we need three-point sermons anymore. I think we need truth-supported points that go back to your target statement.
Speaker 2:So not a three-point argument, not a linear thing For you. It's one key truth that has other truths supporting that one key truth.
Speaker 1:And once I do that I'm at the whiteboard, I'm building the outline and just trying to frame a message?
Speaker 2:Is there a certain shape it takes? Are you writing down across bubbles? I'm curious because I sit with a notebook and do the same thing. What is the literal shape that it takes?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's crazy. It's a list formatted right All the truths I'm drawing arrows, application, illustration, explanation. I'm all over the place with it. And I I will say this I think, when it comes to the creative brainstorm of a sermon prep process, I don't think it looks the same every time.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because you're dealing with different texts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You might be dealing with a parable and the next day you're dealing with a pastoral you know Epistle, yeah, Pauline. Epistle, so it doesn't need to look the same every time.
Speaker 1:That's good so yeah, you're doing that, but you're finding that one truth and then you're taking it to your congregation and that's what you're preaching, that's what you're inspiring. So that's the answer. By the way, Okay, I wish I would have known this a long time ago, that I'm trying to find the one answer, the one solution, that way that first minute you're using it to introduce the pain point of the problem.
Speaker 2:That's the antithesis of what you found.
Speaker 1:When you do that, look what happens.
Speaker 2:They're leaning in, they're ready.
Speaker 1:And you provide a good, you know, maybe an opener story or illustration that relates to that problem.
Speaker 2:You have heard it said. But I tell you, dot, dot dot.
Speaker 1:Come on.
Speaker 2:I'm in Now, you're in Now you're in. That's it, that's it, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1:I've learned the hermeneutical side. Do those things right. You don't need all these points. You need one target statement that provides a pain point at the beginning that they'll want the answer to within your message. And man know how long you're good for. I would say that too.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah yeah yeah and over, so I'm good for that's that's such a fascinating thing about it, cause I think so many people will write us God. Okay, I want to pause here.
Speaker 1:Cause I think a lot of people a lot of people.
Speaker 2:a lot of people were like oh man, I'm now rethinking all the times that I've been asked to preach somewhere. I'm like, how long do you want me to preach for? And it being like whatever they say, I mean functionally like I know what I feel is about the right time for the content that I've prepared. But like the idea of like man, no, I'm just—I'm really—I'm a really good 23-minute preacher and just owning that versus the like well, if you need me to go 40 or 30 or whatever, let me know.
Speaker 2:Like no man, like no, no. Yeah, that's good, okay, okay. So what is— I mean, what is Anthony? How long is your sermon good for?
Speaker 1:I'm MJ, I'm 23. 23, that's it. That's it. Yeah, yeah, goated, I can't do a minute over Now. I would say that's 23 minutes worth of teaching content right, and then I'll do an invitation after that. Sure sure, but 23 is where I'm at and I've just mastered that timing. I know it to be true. I know it to be true.
Speaker 2:I set a timer on my Apple watch it'll vibrate almost kind of groove into it and I know, like in the back of my mind, that timer's about to go off, because I just feel well, again you do something long enough, you get a feel for it right it's the like at the gym now. I don't even almost don't even almost need the 45 second clock whenever we do little intervals because, Okay, fine, oh, there we go.
Speaker 2:Yes, you get a feel for it, and that's true for your audience too. I think that's one of the things, for maybe somebody that would want to preach longer is, you've kind of probably got to get them stretched into it. I think, that's everything else in your student's life. Right now is unfortunately, unfortunately, two minutes to 10 minutes, and so you want to preach 40 minutes at them. Man, they're just not going to retain it.
Speaker 2:And I think that's part of the conversation is like what is actually like, not just like what you're interested in, but the retention level at the place age pathos that they're at right now.
Speaker 1:It matters. It matters. Yeah, that's really good man. So, uh, yeah, don't don't go a minute over. And try to be concise and clear in your content. Like that truth that you're bringing to your sheep, you want to make sure that it's accurate as well. Yeah, I've had too many sermons I mean, I've been doing this over a decade that maybe have fringe on the heretical side, maybe want some re-dos.
Speaker 2:Maybe want some re-dos. We take a re-do on a couple of those, that's okay.
Speaker 1:That's okay, but we got to be accurate as biblical communicators who exegete the text.
Speaker 2:We never want to exegete.
Speaker 1:There's pilots, there's doctors that have to be accurate in their work. How much more for the preacher? Amen for that.
Speaker 2:I'm very happy to have an accurate pilot. That's right.
Speaker 1:So I mean, all that being said, that's on the hermeneutical side. You've got to do well on the prep and the preaching of hermeneutical.
Speaker 2:That's all that happens before you even go do the thing. That's all that happens and that is an important work. So give us just a few more of the 17. I mean so. I heard some of them in there of like reading it and rereading it.
Speaker 1:But what are?
Speaker 2:some of the maybe of the 17,. What are some that like are recent additions, or maybe you're not on everybody else's list that you would want to make sure, like if people were building out their checklist what's a? Couple. You're like man. I am surprised that more folks don't do yes. Speaking of the checklist, anybody that wants this, we can share it. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. We'll put it out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to make everybody better, but I will say this the check, the commentary on the checklist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:It's after your study, okay, it's after you found the answer. The main point and the commentary is commentary is to help you make sure you're in the guardrails, if you will. So it's commentaries, it's looking at different verbs, the subjects in the text, all that Also building your outline. All those things are necessary. Parts Intro conclusion that's a part of the checklist. Did it go somewhere? Conclusion that's a part of the checklist. Did it go somewhere?
Speaker 2:Yeah, second, only to the first minute is the last few minutes. Knowing that it has an end and that you made it all the way to the end really matters. Unfortunately, I've seen too many friends write sermons that start off really strong and the page just starts to lose a word count because we'll figure it out when we get there. No, no, no. Make sure you start it and you end it.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right. First quarter, fourth quarter I've been there. I've been there. I'll just write invitation, oh dude.
Speaker 2:So that's been one of Chad's big conversation points in this last year of training is talking about invitation, because there has been this, I think, renewed sense of revival generation, sure, inviting folks to a life of discipleship and for all the careful work and study that people going to be the kind of gear shift that you really didn't want it to be which is like this and poignant and thoughtful, and then oopsie-daisy.
Speaker 2:They don't remember the first thing they remember, the last thing that's right, they're going to remember it in exactly this order the very last thing you said, and then none of the rest of it, and then maybe the first thing if it was intriguing enough. And so, if you're going to struggle, struggle in the middle, not in the finish.
Speaker 1:That's good. The late Wade Morris said he used to spend more time message prep on the invitation than he would on the other content. Rightfully so.
Speaker 2:It's good, it's good, okay, but what has those—this is the question. I wanted to follow up with this because I know that it's been a process for you, sure, and this has been a conversation piece in a lot of youth ministry how has preaching and teaching maybe shifted or changed for you in the last 10 years, but most notably in the last few years? In a post-COVID reality, in a social media-saturated age, in a place where even, like middle school kids have cell phones, like how has that affected? Like the ways in which maybe you're thinking about things or preparing things so good, or how has that shifted and maybe even surprises with it hasn't. But there's some other considerations. I do think it feels different. I think some of our friends in ministry that have been doing it for 11, 20, 25 years are really wrestling with this, so help give us some wisdom.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going there, aren't?
Speaker 2:we Okay, let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
Speaker 1:So I would say three things. Okay, I'd say engagement is higher than ever when you preach.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It doesn't need to be a presentation, it has to be a conversation.
Speaker 2:Is there some of that homiletical stuff?
Speaker 1:Yes, we've now moved from hermeneutics to homiletics.
Speaker 2:That's right that the art of the presentation it can't just be a well-written sermon. It's got to be participation in the sermon.
Speaker 1:It's got to be okay. Yeah, come on. Come on, say more. Come on. How are you engaging? They're in two places at once.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have a team, we achieve space time travel. We really have yeah, yeah yeah, they're in the room and out of the room.
Speaker 1:So you know technology. How can you involve that in such a way? Because it's a part of their life? For some, it's their identity.
Speaker 2:It's the fabric of their life.
Speaker 1:That's right, it's their identity it. Identity. It's the thing that they would physically hurt if they didn't have access to it. You know, it's harder for a student to put their cell phone in the middle of a table during a small group time than ever before, ever before yeah. So how are you engaging using their phones? I preached a message last week and I, at the beginning of my sermon, found this survey online for free you could use. I think it was like Minty Meter or something.
Speaker 1:And I had everybody take out their phones, use a code and we— Like scan a QR kind of deal or whatever. Scan a QR code kind of thing. And the introductory of my sermon was an engaging survey. We just looked at rankings. Who's better, Michael Jordan or LeBron?
Speaker 2:What's better, chick-fil-a or Whataburger? Low stakes, high interest yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we did that. Everybody was locked in. They saw the bars moving and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:They were affecting change.
Speaker 1:I was affecting change. It was so cool.
Speaker 2:They're trying to fight to get their low team up higher. It was really cool.
Speaker 1:But it was engaging and it set me up that the world is challenging Jesus in their attempt to take his first place. Jesus is highest ranking, right, but how well did everybody participate and engage at the beginning?
Speaker 2:of the sermon To affect the change. It was a conversation.
Speaker 1:I'm talking to them, they're talking back and yelling at me. Got them locked in. So I would say number one you've got to engage more when you preach If you're not letting them take notes.
Speaker 2:And engagement is not just yeah, so engagement is not just I talked at them, but it's talking with them. No, it's like stopping along the way.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes yes, Like hey, everybody look at your hand. Do you see that design? You know that's unique, so you know, engaging, by the way, engaging their five senses, Okay, good, good, good.
Speaker 2:We need these rubrics. I think this is the thing that like we hear the word relationship engagement, but then the imagination of like how is this showing up? Yes and so yeah, do a sensory check. In what ways are we inviting not just their ears but their eyes, their touch?
Speaker 1:So everybody one sermon. Everybody knows YMCA Played in the middle of my sermon Make them dance yeah yeah, yeah, everybody's YMCA-ing this thing. They did it because they know it.
Speaker 1:And the truth was man. If you know the scripture, you'll do it. So you're engaging that kind of stuff, and so I would say engagement needs to be higher than ever. Number two, I would say this In the culture we live in, everybody wants to know the truth, and there's truth tellers out there that will look at you and can see in you if you know what you're talking about or not. So I would say for the preacher you have to be studied up and readied up. You've got to know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Because the other app they have on their phones behind the social media is Google.
Speaker 1:They're Googling baby and AI. Did you know?
Speaker 2:that 78% of Actually Pastor. That's incorrect. That's actually factually an error. No, because they will.
Speaker 1:Nowadays Google's Bible. That's it actually fact, that's actually factually in error?
Speaker 2:no, because they will nowadays google's bible.
Speaker 1:They just yeah there's, I believe anything on google.
Speaker 2:Well, you are even the bible like they will google the verse and see what shows up around it and so if you haven't anticipated the same be prepared you better be prepared, because the preaching conversation it doesn't stop.
Speaker 1:after the invitational song it continues after you get off stage. There's many that come up and ask a deeper question and they want more. You better be ready, the stuff you cut from your sermon because it was longer than 23 minutes, to give it to them right and to enter a small group conversation with them.
Speaker 2:And that drive the truth. I hope produces more questions. That's right, I think that's. That's one of the things, because we want to proclaim the good news.
Speaker 2:We want to speak the good word. But more than just the proclamation, my hope is that the truth of it would push them to having those questions after that. You didn't just like say it and they do. The thing that so many of us are frustrated by just nod along and leave Real engagement is when they're like hold on, I'm going to ask you stuff after, like that's the good good, yeah, yeah, yeah, the questions are leading to application.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to put some handles on it.
Speaker 2:When they are looking for it.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and that's the whole goal for preaching right Life transformation. That's it, man. Yeah. So I would say the third thing after engagement, after knowing the truth being studied up, the third thing I would say the last thing is they want to go deep. I've seen this transition and this change over the past decade is they're not settling with surface-level truth, they want to go deeper, and what does the Scripture really have to say about it? What does the original language have to tell us about it? Tell us about the context and the audience.
Speaker 1:Back, in the day of what they were dealing with, so that we can relate. What's a Galatian? That's so good. You know they want to go deeper and you've got to be ready for that. And guess what? That actually takes you a little bit more prep time.
Speaker 2:So you know, using things like EnduringWordcom or the Logos Bible Study just go deeper and get ready for that, I would say Well, and maybe to the point that you're preparing notes that aren't preached but followed up, like that's one of the things. To circle back to your engagement bit, I think too many folks utilize notes just as fill in the blank from their sermon outline that they wrote man in a QR code. Hyperlink world dude. Give them the show your work. You don't have to read the article, but link it, or QR code it.
Speaker 2:Man put it out there. My favorite uses of social media that I wish more youth pastors would utilize is to fill in the dude minute 24 to 27 that you wanted to share around a time, for that sounds like a really great like Instagram or YouTube short to put out for them Because, again, it's the questions they have. It might even be pointed in enough that it came from a question that they asked. Like there are ways to communicate beyond, like it's the questions they have. It might even be pointed enough that it came from a question that they asked Like there are ways to communicate beyond. Like it's the after right, like it doesn't end at when the invitation's over the invitation doesn't end.
Speaker 1:That's right and that's so, so important.
Speaker 2:So how are? Some of those things like man, like where are the ones that you're like I'm? So glad that we're doing this Like, like. Where are the ones that you're like? I'm so glad that we're doing this Like. Where have you seen, like, the little, like give the encouragement of like? When has it felt like it's been working? You talk about the survey, talk about some other things. When has it felt like this has been like working and useful and like keep pounding the pavement, keep doing it.
Speaker 1:Sure, when it comes to preaching, obviously I would just say I've changed a lot in my study, okay, changed a lot in my study, okay. And looking up kind of the important words in the passes I'm preaching and looking up the original language, but tying it back in to the target statement, I've set to the application I want to share.
Speaker 1:I got to preach application every time, right, because I'm wanting the audience, the pathos, to feel inspired to change. But they will never feel inspired to change if they don't know what to change. So I'm just tying that stuff in and going a little deeper. But I'm not rushing the moments of response. And, yeah, I'm giving an invitation to come to know Jesus, right, but I'm also allowing the believer to respond to lay down a habitual sin at the altar, to grab a hand of a friend and begin praying and confessing. I'm not rushing those moments either. And there's moments, zach, where the three-minute invitation went 13 minutes. So I'm just leaving room. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is involved in this preaching process, right, convicting the harsh, converting the hearts, um, by allowing the Holy Spirit to move so that they don't walk in. Uh, they don't leave the same way they walk in.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:Um. So I think that's where we're seeing it work is we're allowing the response to be probably the most important element, but before the response, we're making sure we do our job in prep.
Speaker 2:That's good. That's good. Well, anthony, thanks for coming by today. Man, like for folks that wanted to follow with you, get connected, get 17 step checkpoint sermon list, because they're hungry for that kind of thing. How do folks find you follow you? Get connected with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so all social media platforms. I think it's easy at underscore Anthony Vargas and you can go to my website and get some more contact information anthonyvargasorg. Easy as that. Uh, you'll be sure to find my email. I'd love to email anybody the pdfs and stuff like that. Got sermon templates, uh, first 90 days checklist, like if you're starting off somewhere new. What does that look like? Dot dot dot, and I'd love to help anybody out so good, so good.
Speaker 2:Well, my friend uh, always a joy to have you on the podcast. Thanks for being being here today. Yeah, buddy, it's been fun.
Speaker 2:Snap hey. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Electric Booster Podcast. If you'd like to learn more from Anthony Vargas, make sure to check the show. Note links below where you can access his email or links to any of the documents, references or checklists that he gave. Super glad that you're listening. I hope that you are growing and continue to learn and get boosted in student ministry. Thankful for you. See you next week. Thank you.
