Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Campus Youth Ministry, Or How To Grow Beyond Church w/ Micah Lynn
What do you get when you combine a love for coffee, tacos, and the rising cultural trend of YouTube golf?
You get Micah Lynn.
Micah Lynn is a second generation minister, growing up as a pastor's kid in Texas and then growing and blossoming at OBU and during his residency at the Cross Church School of Ministry. Micah shares his journey and the invaluable mentorship he received along the way.
Join us for this episode as we sit down with Micah to talk about Gen Z youth ministers, campus ministry, and growing as a leader. Chad is still gone on "Chadcation," and while we wish him well creating content for his new Youtube golf channel we must return to regularly scheduled broadcast of youth ministry.
Our conversation focuses on attention to effective strategies for campus ministry. We emphasize the significance of being present and intentional on middle and high school campuses, sharing insights on how small gestures can lead to big trust. We also talk about the shifting role of social media in ministry, we argue for its use as a tool for in organic and genuine engagement rather than event promotion.
Finally, we reflect on the challenge and joy of longevity in student ministry, highlighting the excitement of welcoming new groups of students and the satisfaction of watching them grow over the years. Tune in for a blend of humor, practical advice, and heartfelt discussions on ministry and community engagement.
A snack, Micah.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, hey come on now, oh buddy what's up, man?
Speaker 2:We have a travel guest today, micah, coming all the way from beautiful Northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man for making the drive in. Hey, thank you for the invite, man, I'm really glad to be here. Well, I feel like you'd do anything for coffee and tacos though I would do a lot of things, a lot of things for coffee and tacos.
Speaker 2:Big Torchy, the velvet, I'll say it, the velvet tacos. They were money today. Oh, okay, shout out to our non-sponsor sponsor of the podcast today. Thank you, velvet Tacos, for having the full range of tacos today. I mean, I think you had the meat sampler right.
Speaker 1:I had shrimp pork steak. It was incredible. It was a great day for me.
Speaker 2:It was like the sheet came down from heaven and it was like take and eat, be blessed, right.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of what I feel like the Holy Spirit was in that place today. It was Peter's moment. That's right. That's right.
Speaker 2:You know it's important that way. Again, we're on Chadcation this week, so new game we want to play. Micah Chad's not here. Where do you think he's at? Like? Just imagine the possibility of where Chad could be today. He's clearly not in Tulsa here on the podcast. Where do you imagine Chad's at today?
Speaker 1:Listening to all the podcasts over the years.
Speaker 2:Oh, just knowing what I know about Chad.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I don't feel like Beachy is the place.
Speaker 2:That feels like too easy. No, no, no, not too easy.
Speaker 1:I would say he's probably in the mountainous regions. Oh okay, Undisclosed location.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, deep hour of prayer.
Speaker 1:Probably an hour off the main road, maybe limited cell service Just checked out of life and people, maybe writing a book we don't even know about.
Speaker 2:He actually is writing a book right now. Come on.
Speaker 1:You never know.
Speaker 2:I won't give the title away yet, but the parent ministry book he's working on it's due November, so get that stinker done, because it's got to come out next year. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, that stinker done, because it's got to come out next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yes, sir, I bet it'll be really, really good.
Speaker 1:I'm sure we're talking about right now. He's probably writing his best moments of that book?
Speaker 2:I bet he is, I bet he. I bet he can sense our prayers, thoughts and prayers for you. Chad higgins, yeah, while you're working on it, uh, but the secret answer is he's probably playing golf. He's a big fan of the golf, yeah, I mean. So that's one of. I feel bad that you have to spend time with me because he's our resident golf YouTube channel guy, and so at lunch today I felt fully underprepared to talk all the deeps and details with you. But YouTube golf is like a whole thing right now.
Speaker 1:It's a whole thing. Do you want to?
Speaker 2:enlighten the people that don't know how big YouTube golf is YouTube golf.
Speaker 1:you can make a fortune if you learn to play golf first of all. You don't have to be that good, but if you're funny, you can play golf. Anybody can start a YouTube account.
Speaker 2:I like this funny first If you're funny and can kind of play golf close enough, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or if you're not funny and you're really good you can be a really good YouTube golfer. But there's money to be made, there's futures lives to be changed out there on the golf course Wait hold on you just have to carry a camera around with you.
Speaker 2:Cause that's I mean. So what's the problem that YouTube golf is solving? Cause that we talked about it at lunch a little bit. I love to play golf. I'll go watch people play golf. Sure, I rarely watch golf on TV. Is YouTube golf just a better edit of golf? Is that it?
Speaker 1:It's relatable, you understand, like okay not everybody's perfect, okay, and so if I mess up, if I make a bad shot, we can laugh it off.
Speaker 2:We can go do great things.
Speaker 1:It's fun times Like I just played golf last week I got invited to play at a nice course was really excited and I played the second worst round of my life ever in front of someone that I really wanted to impress, so had we had a YouTube channel, I would be making a lot of money right now because people would just relate like man the whoopsies. Yeah, I slice it, I draw it unintentionally. All those, all those good things. So, yeah, yeah, lots of, lots of fun to be had on the YouTube golf.
Speaker 2:And also like hijinks right Cause, like they're doing, like funny mini games and like challenges, Like that's one of those when we travel. Chad always has me.
Speaker 1:He's like it's like ensemble, right, it's a whole thing. Yeah, for sure. I'm not, obviously, obviously not endorsing the gambling of golf, but there's lots of fun games to be had maybe some, some pranks and everything you could do.
Speaker 2:You know, gatorade wagers like you, you buy the gatorade, yeah, yeah you know, the next round of waters is on that's it. That's it to me when he shanks this one out of bounds, like things like that right, there's lots of fun to be had with golf.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times people think golf is for a certain demographic of people. But what?
Speaker 2:we're learning is it's?
Speaker 1:it's just an everyman's game.
Speaker 2:You just want to go out there at the boys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on a saturday for the boys and just hit and act like you're really good. You can count your score however you want. So really it's, you know it's fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot of fun. We're having fun, we're cutting up, we're having a good time, no, uh. So, dude, thanks for coming to hang out on on. Sorry, this is not the golf youtube channel, but maybe this will propel you into a great second place. The humor. Uh, I mean, you're welcome. You're welcome today for the audience to use any terminology from golf, of slice, hook, shank, all good, yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of other terminology Good good, good, good, right, right, yeah, no, that's a gimme, that's a gimme, that's a gimme.
Speaker 2:For sure, we're going to work that in in three, two, yeah, okay. So, mike, dude, you literally brought the coffee. We had the tacos. I'm excited to have you on the podcast today because we've been friends in ministry for a good spell and one of the things I've loved is just like from brother to brother is watching you grow and lead and do. But for folks that don't know you that well, man, give us the short intro, the Michael Lynn introduction to how you got to where you're at today, serving in Northwest Arkansas, and just maybe, just a little bit like I mean, you're still doing the thing, like you're on the crest of 30 and you're like you're seemingly still really excited about the thing. So how did you get involved in the thing that we call youth ministry?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I grew up, I'm a, I'm a pastor's kid, born and raised. Come on, Second gen you know what's up from West Texas. Um, my dad was in ministry my whole life and about my junior or senior year of high school we had a student pastor transition. He went to go plant a church and I got to lead. I had to step into leadership, which just meant nothing crazy, just hanging out with the middle schoolers and really just beginning to engage them, build relationships, and I really enjoyed doing that.
Speaker 2:The fundamentals. The fundamentals, that's right.
Speaker 1:The big stuff, yeah yeah, yeah, Believe it or not, they didn't want an 11th grader up there preaching which is weird.
Speaker 2:Well, that's complicated. I can't imagine why. Yeah, it's complicated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, man. So I got to do that for about a year and really just felt like God was stirring something in my heart and then I was feeling like maybe that's a call to ministry, even though I didn't know how to articulate that. So as I was playing, I was called a ministry, kind of like teasing that out and serving in the church. I had a staff member at my dad's church and he said if you're feeling called a ministry, you need to discern if you're actually called a ministry, or if you're feeling called to ministry, you need to discern if you're actually called to ministry or if you just like being at church, and that was kind of like a oh shoot moment, cause my dad I was always at church.
Speaker 1:My dad was a church planner at some point. What else would you do on a Sunday?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like how often can you sleep in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you play golf on Sundays.
Speaker 2:Who has the time? Oh, so you're not a Christian? Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, so man, I just got to figure some of that out in high school and it was a really cool moment where God kind of affirmed that for me I thought it was ministry or coaching basketball, and then God kind of closed the door to coaching that route that I thought was going to have and opened a door for ministry. And so I got to head up to Northwest Arkansas right after I graduated college shout out to the Cross Church School of Ministry.
Speaker 2:Year two baby class of 14.
Speaker 1:And so that was a really cool moment where I got to do a residency, learn more in depth behind the scenes. What does ministry look like? What does your job is? Hey, that closet's got to be cleaned out and you're looking around like, well, who's going to do that?
Speaker 2:You are you are going to clean that out, so you just build character.
Speaker 1:You get to watch and observe a lot of different things and honestly, zach, I've been really blessed in my life to have a lot of great mentors, a lot of people that poured into me, believed in me for certain things that I didn't realize about myself, and so through that, I've just got to see God open some doors, close some doors, see some really cool moments.
Speaker 2:Well, and one of the things to make it clear for folks like you went to school, undergrad and studied but then also did the school of ministry residential program, because, again, it was the learning but also some of the tools and stuff as well. I think that is such a unique trend that we're seeing. We'd love to hear from more folks that are in that model of like. Maybe they're going to Bible college or they're going to seminary or undergrad but still like one of the things about learning to do the work of church happens in the local church, I think that's a really powerful thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times it's an over, like if I want to be a pastor, a real pastor, I have to go to seminary and do all these things. And I think there's I've been to seminary. I think there's great value in doing that. I think you need to know that. But my pastor always says it this way it's like nobody's really ever come to a meeting with him or come to his office to talk about his view on eschatology. But they've always come when they've been found out in some sin, when something tragic has happened in their life.
Speaker 2:And so that's real ministry, exactly my kids are struggling with this.
Speaker 1:What do I do Not your amillennial, premillennial, whatever. Right, right, right, fill in the yeah, yeah, and so I think seminary gives you the great education for that prepares you to teach the Bible accurately and doctrine and all those things which I'm absolutely for.
Speaker 2:Shapes, you forms you, but the work, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it comes back to the truth of people.
Speaker 1:Don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. That's right that I've tried to live out and just build great relationships with people and I think if you're in ministry, you're in the people business and you're there for relationships and ministry moves at the speed of relationships and so you've got to be able to invest in people and I think we've seen some pastors and leaders that are really great in a pulpit but their people don't know them and so it's really hard and I think, as we see especially with students these days that crave authenticity, that crave being real, being 100 with people.
Speaker 1:You know that's what they want, and you can't always do that when you're in the office just doing things that make you look good.
Speaker 2:Well, so say I want you to say a little bit more, because this is something that's come back as a theme, like as a, as a perceived need. A reality of ministry is investing in people. It need a reality of ministry is investing in people. Michael, what are some of the things that that you've seen or learned or adapted or like really clung to? That is that relational work of ministry, cause I think sometimes that ends up being like for some folks, like a cover or an envelope to like stuff things into, but like for for the way in which you're leading your team and doing ministry. What are some of the like? These are the fundamentals that must happen to invest in people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it. You know, when it comes to terms like calendaring and looking at your week, you always this is what I tell our student team at the church that I serve at is we always prioritize people. So, people over systems, people over projects. Now do I think you need to get in the office and you should? You be prepared to preach on Wednesday? Absolutely, you should have a calendar app.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, you should probably use your calendar app, you probably should probably mark out the days of your week. Yeah, if you want to make a big difference in your staff culture, just respond. Yes, that's right. That's right, let them know. Let them know.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But so I'm all for that, but I'm also all for people, and so what I found out is kids are a lot more likely to listen on a Wednesday night to a sermon or a Sunday morning teaching when they know that I've been at a game, when I've texted them about how their test went, when I've asked about how their mom is doing, knowing that she's going through something really hard or has cancer or things like that. When you are with those people in the moments, that is what translates to them wanting to hear the word from you when you're teaching and things like that, so I think they go hand in hand.
Speaker 1:So the way that we do that as a staff is, um, like very, very practical is, uh, I have a couple of people that work on our team for student ministry and so every Thursday we kind of it's kind of like the end of our week I have them send a like a weekly report of who they met with, what campuses they were on, what students they were with, what leaders they were with, and then anything that they feel like I need to know of. You know, like little Timmy's grandpa is sick in the hospital or anything like that. So we make time and prepare time and have accountability for meeting with people, and I think that's the thing of ministries with people. But sometimes it doesn't always just happen Like nobody's really walking into my office Monday through Thursday like hey, just want to check in you know, especially with students, you've got to go out where they are and get engaged with them and build those relationships.
Speaker 1:But you've got to prioritize that in your own ministry.
Speaker 2:Well, so I think let's say, let's say it, playing for the folks in the back, like relational work is the proactive work of ministry. I think sometimes that's. Relationality in ministry is not a characteristic, like there are some folks that lead relationally because they're warm to be around, or they just they are extroverted to the point that like they need to be around. People introverted or extroverted, like whether your systems or what people or procedure, whatever your leadership style is, the relational work that is required in ministry is a proactive work. Like families aren't going to like going to come barging down your door unless you've been the one to open the door first. Right, or there's like real, like we are frustrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you want to get there first.
Speaker 2:You want to get there first. You want to get there first.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:I think it's important to say again and again, like this is like the relational work isn't just those things, but it's doing those things proactively. And, like you were saying, putting it on your calendar, like like showing up for other people is as much an appointment as the meeting you were going to have with the designer for the camp t-shirt.
Speaker 1:Yes, both matter a great, great deal, yes, and I think that's something you and Chad have done really well with this podcast. Even months ago, y'all talked about just utilizing your office time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, so you can make some, some blocks of time of like, hey, I just got to get this done, it's just got to get done, so I'm going to do it so that I can go out and do the next thing. Well sometimes the next thing needs to be the next person I need to meet with and I need to be invested in. So putting that in your calendar is just really, really helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, people in your calendar. Your senior pastor is not mad that you've got a lineup of people that you have, are and are going to meet with. They want to see that. Put it on the clipboard, put it on the wall. Make it visible.
Speaker 1:It matters, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, michael, one of the things I was going to ask you because you are, this is a new category, new territory. We now have Gen Z youth ministry leaders. Come on and like man, you're like one of my favorites so like what are some of the things from someone that has grown up in the church? And I think that's probably enough runway to help see what's something that growing up in the church to now serving in the church, like what's changed, like because you, you, you teased earlier, you're the kid that was always there as the son of a kid's minister. I get it, my VBS cardboard animal collection, sir to see, to see your hymn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get it we we, we are, we are like, uh, like, what are the things that have changed in a way that it's like formed or shaped your ministry on this side of the thing now, yeah, I think one of the biggest things as I was thinking about this is uh, is style.
Speaker 1:I think the style in which you guys, every church has a style, um, if you don't think you, you do, you, you really do Um, so I think the style of generations, your lack of understanding.
Speaker 2:If you have a style or not, it's indicative of the style that you have.
Speaker 1:That is exactly right.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right, but yeah you can with that one for a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just pause it for a second.
Speaker 1:Those are great words from Zach. No man, I think it's just style. You know I actually today, driving down here, I listened to a song called like take it all back from when we used to sing it when I was in. So, anyway, I have not heard that song since we played it in our student ministry in 2011, 2012.
Speaker 2:It's time to bring it back. We know anybody that can bring it back. I mean, that was a little jumpy around we were ready for it.
Speaker 1:That's when you do your progressive student ministry.
Speaker 2:If you play that, song oh, you got jumps in. Yeah, I mean some of us out here clapping. If you're out here jumping, yeah, jumping in the house of God. No, I was definitely arms crossed in the back kind of guy. Oh, okay, Preacher, son Got it. Yeah, you gotta know.
Speaker 1:Uh, but man, I think the the the style of that. So here's what I've learned from successful pastors who've been in it for a long time that I've seen from my seat is the ones who are not afraid to change the style a little bit. Not immediately, not necessarily fast, but change the style with, with generations, and you can coach an older generation to say, hey, if we want to reach younger people, we're going to have to change some of the style.
Speaker 2:It's going to have to look a little different.
Speaker 1:It's going to have to look a little different, and so I don't think you know cause this might get different perspectives. Not necessarily a hot take, it's just the reality that um are I've been a part of churches, I've done that Well. I've been a part of churches, I've not done that well.
Speaker 1:And so it's. It's a give and take. Um, I'm grateful to serve at a church right now that I think they have done that Well. We have people in our church who have, uh, seen some things in life, who are, or they're, retired community. Whatever they are, they're very they want to reach younger people. And so our pastor says well, if you want to reach younger people, here's what's going to take. And they say, okay, you know, they're along for it.
Speaker 1:So I think a lot of that falls on leadership, but really from the Gen Z thing, it's just style and then really, you know, I think on a little bit of a more sad note, there's a lot less trust in the church these days, just with different things that have happened and different church or whatever and social media and all that stuff. So I think you have to work a little bit harder to earn the trust of younger people, if that makes sense, yeah, and really be intentional in that, whereas you used to be able to just say things and people are like, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, but now you've got to really.
Speaker 2:He said it with religious authority. It must be accurate Versus now there's some cracks starting to show, not necessarily you, but across the board. Ministry leader.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, or little Tim. You'll say well, I just Googled this and this is what AI says, so you got to be ready for some of those things.
Speaker 2:That is so real. So that is one of the things that like again, I had wonderful youth ministry, I'm a wonderful youth pastor, wonderful youth ministry leaders and mentors or whatever, but the world in which, like the whole internet, is accessible to everyone in the pews and the chairs, if they so were inclined to, or whatever that's one of the things that is so different now is that everybody yeah, youtubers and influencers and Instagram folks or whatever but I would wager that most of the students in your ministry have some other spiritual figure that's speaking into their life. That's not just the youth minister Like there is more spiritual authority in their life, right or wrong, because of podcasts and clips and whatever that they're probably hearing from.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, well, I think I'm a believer. I don't remember who said this, but they said everyone's being discipled by something. So it's either going to be the word of God and the church and disciple them, or school is going to disciple them, social media is going to disciple them, and a lot of times it's all those at once. And so you really got to be intentional, and especially in the student ministry world, of how you're using your time to disciple those kids, and so just being, I think, intentionality is a really big word.
Speaker 2:It's good, so, okay, so maybe that's the other question, or the other half of it. Like, what are some things that haven't changed? So what are some things? Again, your second generation of this, you've grown up and seen it through the lens of a weekly, regular basis.
Speaker 1:So, like, what are some of the things that are like Nope, this is still steadfast, this is still true, this is still important, yeah, I think, for you know, as as much as style has changed and the people style has changed, what I would say has not changed is is is people people in the sense that people still need relationships, people still need community, people still need the word of God, People still need to be in the room to uh, worship God in song and sit under the authority and the teaching of God's word. So I think those things have not changed. Now, maybe sometimes the vehicle or the personality that's teaching those looks a little bit different, but at its core it should be people looking for community, people looking to find Jesus and community at church and things like that. I think those are. Those are never, hopefully never going to change.
Speaker 1:I think they're biblical, Um, but I think those are the things that people, at the end of the day, they still want to talk to somebody. Little Timmy still wants to know that you were there at his game. Yeah, he wants to know that he can trust you with something that he's struggling with. Like, a lot of those things are not really going to change, I don't think, even if the vehicle of how we find out about those things does.
Speaker 2:Well, especially even more so as the messaging in mass in marketing increases right in mass in marketing increases, right, like everybody wants more and more from every agency, group, brand, company, influencer, wants your time, attention and dollars, and so to have people, church folks, mentors, pastors that really just actually care, like legitimately, intentionally and sincerely and truly care, is kind of the counterpunch, and I think that's one of the things that, like it seems so obvious. It's like how could that be true? And it's like well cause, you can't find that anywhere else and so it still matters.
Speaker 1:It still matters. Well, we say at our church which we didn't originate this term, but it's all about what we want for you, not what we want from you, and I think that's so see that so much in middle school and high school students. It's like they really don't they? Everybody wants something from them.
Speaker 2:So many expectations.
Speaker 1:They're being pulled in so many different directions, and so, really, what they need to know is like you're just, you're for them, yeah, you're for them, you love them, you care about them. Uh, so, man, I just think that's something that's never going to change and we just have to continually pour into relationships and people.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, uh, so. So here's our kind of our beefy topic for the day, because it is back to school season when this episode hits Everybody back, we all back. And one of the things that either is at the forefront for a lot of ministries or is that kind of lingering, nagging backburner thing is campus ministry. Either for rightful reasons, because we tried it and it didn't work, or we haven't tried it in a while or the last time we did, or it's the work, or we haven't tried it in a while or the last time we did, or it's the thing that we like are all in on. But, micah, give us a little bit of like a sense again. You've been doing the ministry thing for a while. You've served in multiple places. You're now in a situation where there's lots of campuses to be on. Guys in directus, how would you advise campus ministry be done really well in 2024?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think again, what I keep coming back to is the intentionality and really the focus, right? So if you're talking campus ministry, what we mean is going to middle school or high school campuses, being on the school being present. Being present, yes being there and I would also argue which I don't know if we have enough time to get into this today, but I would say social media is a campus that people are at.
Speaker 2:So I can say you can make that argument, we're going to pin that one. We're going to put a pin in that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, but we're talking about physical campus ministry. So, for example, going to a student's basketball game, football game, cheerleading competition, whatever it is chess club, lots of different things that you could be a part of is what I would say is a student ministry worker not just student pastor, but student worker at all. And I think you'll do it really well if your volunteers are involved. Doing it is going to be where your students are.
Speaker 1:So, I'm a big believer that you cannot ask students to come to you on a Wednesday to church if you're not willing to go where they are Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday at their game and things like that.
Speaker 2:The ask goes both ways. Yes, good, good, good, good, yeah, that'll get me, that'll get me.
Speaker 1:So I think, man, I'm a big proponent of campus ministry. This is something in the past few years that I've grown in a lot. When I first got into student ministry I wasn't that good at it. I was just nervous and I didn't know what I didn't know. So thankfully, I've had cool people around me that have been able to teach me some of those things. So when I think campus ministry, I think simplicity and I think consistency. So what we don't need is someone to go into the principal's office and be like I'm going to start a Bible study here tomorrow. Do all the things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's probably not a good idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Here's what that might look like Emailing the principal ahead of time. Yeah, hey, principal, so-and-so. Uh, man, we've got a bunch of our students that are going to your school and love what you guys are doing there. I would love to get like to buy you coffee, to bring you coffee and just have 30 minutes of your time and just talk about your school.
Speaker 2:The answer to that is always yes, and I'm not above bribing the front office ladies.
Speaker 1:They're always want donuts, sonic drinks, right, simple things.
Speaker 2:Learn the names, learn the treats, that's exactly right, come right, come right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, come prepared be there.
Speaker 2:I mean, again, it sounds obvious, but the email ahead of time introduction here's who I am, when. Introduction here's who I am. When can I come meet with you? Would love to drop coffee by. It's small, but that's the kind of stuff I think for a lot of people. That's where they get sideways. They don't start right Like this. Is that missiological approach, that like, if you imagine campus and that's why the social media pin that we'll come back to in a few minutes is so good Imagine it as mission work. It's the mission work of your ministry. What would you do if you showed up as a stranger in a strange land? You would go, try to meet with the local authorities in a way that made sense, that was honorable. Again, this is Luke 10 stuff. This is like go with a buddy. It's super awkward, person of peace being the dude. It's like, hey, I'm 29. I'm here in high school. No, you bring a teammate right. You show a person a piece and again, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But that there's. There's like guidelines for this stuff.
Speaker 1:So that's exactly right, and I'd rather try and fail than not try at all, and I'm just a believer of that get in with somebody at the school and build a relationship. Sometimes they go to the other schools in your area, depending how big your context is. And so, like I know cause I know a lot of people thinking right now is well, all my schools are closed, my schools are closed, I can't go to lunches, I can't do any of that. It's closed campus, right.
Speaker 2:Maybe, maybe, maybe maybe but what if?
Speaker 1:you have the opportunity to go and make it an open campus. Maybe it's closed because somebody did something dumb and you can start restoring that relationship. So, another thing I would say about Campus Ministries, zach, is that it's all about the long game, so don't expect to go there and in a month they'll be like hey, here's a passcode or a card to get in the school whenever you want.
Speaker 2:Like you're not looking for that. You're now pastor Micah. We bless you. You can do whatever you want, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's exactly.
Speaker 2:There's been a lot of people before you that have come and tried something similar.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. So I would say, like man coffee with a principal, bring it to their home turf your office. Hey, just want to take 30 minutes of your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what are your needs? Tell me, tell me, like what here's what I want to do For you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, here's how I can help you. Whoa whoa buddy Because maybe they just need someone in the car line on Thursday afternoons. Oh dude, can you?
Speaker 2:imagine youth pastors in yellow vests just out there directing traffic Someday Dude my hero at my boys' elementary school is this super fit, bald, tim Ferriss-looking dude. When super fit, bald, tim Ferriss looking dude, yeah, when he's there, it's only a couple of days a week. When he's there, them cars get moving, yeah, like he's a hero. I don't know his name, but he's a hero.
Speaker 1:No cape, but he's a hero. There's a school in our area. There's a guy who's always decked out in a.
Speaker 2:He's like the resource officer, but he's also bald jacked and you know what Stuff happens. He makes stuff happen. I get through that. That's the fastest school that I can get past. Thank you, sir. Yes, the unnamed heroes, not all heroes.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right, but man intentionality. So I'd say simplicity and consistency with campus ministry. Just start simple, start small. A coffee with the principal One thing. We get 80 to 100 of the little pop ice popsicles you said popsicle, I'm like, hold on now there's popsicles and there is pop ices if you want to look like an absolute legend at any school campus? Find out. Usually you can get access to like a coaches email if you just do some work online and you email the coach.
Speaker 1:Hey, coach, I'm Michael Lynn. I'm the student pastor at church in the area. Man, I would love to just bless your team one day and I'd love to bring Popeyeses after practice. If you go to a middle school or high school dude after they've been in the trenches for two hours sweating it just sweating, lifting weights and you go to Popsicle. I guarantee you they would give me the rights to their firstborn child. They're like thank you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:You saw a need, you feel the need. Well, especially for and this is a friend of mine's thing he always talks about like go be the biggest booster for freshmen football. Yeah, because nobody. Middle school football, it's like they're cute, they're figuring it out Freshman football Cause they play on like Mondays. Yeah, like nobody, nobody gives it in the Mondays at like eight. Nobody gives any attention to freshman football and if you're blessing freshman football like those, those young men, their coaches and their families are, like this person's, a game changer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Like who is that person? Why is he cheering for our team? There's no one else here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, For the four parents that are in the stands. We really liked that person which one's your kid. None of them here, here for them. But it's not weird. You know, I'm here, for I brought a friend, it's fine. Yeah, so there's been times where I go to campuses and I'm just they don't know my name, but I'm the popsicle guy, okay. So then what's funny, zach?
Speaker 2:is, I'll see. Hold on, wait, wait. Do you have like a like what? What's? What's the cooler situation? My gig, we want. We're here for the hacks and the tips. What's the right, cooler to?
Speaker 1:get. There's a lot of different perspectives on this. Uh, we have the old school orange igloo cooler okay that you put like five gallon one and I can fit about 120 130 of the pop ices in like vertically going vertically, okay, okay, you can't horizontal stack.
Speaker 2:You make that mistake once. Walk us through, okay, yeah, so you carry that. You're going cylindrical, oh yeah okay, no wheels, no wheels. No wheels, no wheels, nothing.
Speaker 1:Here's why because it sticks out, they know. So whenever I walk into a campus, it's almost like these studies, Like we did this study with different animals.
Speaker 2:When they see that orange cooler you can feel the tension lift in practice Everybody's like he's here, he's here. Do you have the ice cream van? Do you like playing a soundtrack? No, Is it like Instrumental Oceans Muzak when you roll through. Not yet, no, we actually go.
Speaker 1:Waymaker Okay, waymaker Okay, good, good, good, I just pull up and it's all like wait, who's that guy you bring out? The orange cool and you're like oh. Waymaker Popsicle yeah.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you oh, my God. So we bring an orange, five gallon cylindrical, cylindrical cylindrical.
Speaker 1:There it is Upright and we set it on the turf. We wait for practice to be over right.
Speaker 1:Depending on the team, we can go, interact with players. Some teams we can't, and so we're just there. But you know what we do? We ask the coach hey, coach, I just love to bring popsicles. Um, if they say why, it's just cause, man, we want to be a positive influence in the community, we want to be able to love on students and we're for students, we're for you, we want to support you and I think when coaches understand because think about the pressure that coaches have it's kind of similar to us, right, their success is based on the actions of 12 to 18-year-olds.
Speaker 2:Okay, how are you doing at your job? Well it's. However, the teens are trying hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right, and so they feel a lot of pressure. So when they have someone, who doesn't? Want anything from them, they just want to bless them. They're all over that. I've had very few people be like, no, we don't, we don't want that, don't come here Exactly.
Speaker 1:And so you, you go there and then you just high five players, man, hey, that was a great, that was a great pass, it was a great catch, that was a good block, all those things. And you just fist, bump them high five and get to know their names. If you know, get to learn three or four names every time you go and you're going to build that like then you're not the popsicle guy, then you're, then you're Micah. So that builds up some, some connection.
Speaker 2:Okay. So question for you, because this is, I think, where some folks either get frustrated or kind of like tail off the relational work, the friendly work, the consistent work, but when's the payoff, Pastor Micah? When do these kids start coming to my church thing? When is that? Tell me promise me the results?
Speaker 1:When do I get to see them at my practice or whatever? So in campus ministry we're all about the long game. What that means is you're not gonna go for a month and the whole team come to your church.
Speaker 2:Maybe that'll happen. Praise God. But, I went for one season and they're all here for D now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe, maybe Could be but we typically go to the campuses where we have at least one student that's on the football team or that does that.
Speaker 2:Right. So sports is are just there's already a person, person, a piece, that's there. Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 1:And so we go and say like, oh yeah, I go to the same church as little Timmy and we. We hang out, we're doing this thing Typically, I'm not there to invite kids to church. That gets a little bit weird. We got a lot of really, honestly, really great churches around where we are, and so A lot of them probably have tried or go somewhere.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, yeah, and I'm not, I mean I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm anti like stealing people from churches.
Speaker 2:Not a poacher, not a poacher.
Speaker 1:But if they ask me about it, I tell them what I do, who I am. I'm like man, do you go to? Do you go to church anywhere you do the church thing, you know get mixed responses with that. And so, church man, why don't you go? And he'd love to invite you. We're doing some cool things I gotta so very casual uh and then somebody there, you know yeah yeah, sometimes you get blessed with a coach who's a believer and I. Why don't you invite him to literally everything you do?
Speaker 2:yeah, and so you can invite him to the dodgeball tournament or the kickoff thing that you're doing, because it's not weird for you to invite the adult to the thing, like you inviting coach, coach timmons to the thing. That's just two adults talking. For sure it's weird when they're minors, but yeah, but you again. Those adult relationships and I think this was where a lot of folks get sideswiped. They're only thinking in the terms of direct benefit to their ministry and not to the broader church.
Speaker 2:Like man what a wonderful blessing if there was like a men's or women's group that was connected to the coach right, or whatever so they're coming alongside the coach more than just, like I hope, to get these teenagers, who will graduate in two years, to our youth group happenings. There is a much longer and you said it right long game community play for the benefit of the church, doing ministry in that town, in that school district, beyond just getting, like the basketball, starting five to show up to D. Now Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And I'll be honest with you, man, I think coaches can see through that.
Speaker 1:And so if they've heard it, so you're, you're building trust, you're earning the right to be heard and things like that. Um, and so when you do that long enough, like yeah, I think at the end of the day kids are going to come to your church. But it's really also another positive to be able to be at a campus and say like, hey, man, we just, we just love you guys, we just care for you, like our church loves you and we want you to know, more importantly, that Jesus loves you and we want to be able to. You never know the doors that can be opened through a gospel conversation there.
Speaker 1:But then when you get them to kind of like you know your turf, your church, if they come out of your church then, you can share and have those conversations and and we've seen students that are coming to our church because we started trying to like just love on a football team or a basketball team or a volleyball team two years ago and we're just now seeing the fruit of it. So I would love to be able to sit here today and tell you like, oh, if you just do these three things six weeks, six weeks it's going to be different ministry, uh. I just I'm a believer in consistency in the longterm.
Speaker 1:And so I've seen that, uh, the past year, past two years being in this role, and so I think it's just man, if you could be consistent, it's a superpower. Yeah, cause a lot of people just want things from them. But if you can just show, up, tail off man.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right Again. There's too many things in our teenager's life that evaporate right. Like they, they live um from one reel to the next or from one class period to the next, and so to have something that consistency shines eventually that will win out.
Speaker 2:For whatever phraseology you prefer, it will win, it will triumph, it will succeed, because most things just seem to fade. And so, okay, you mentioned earlier let's bring the pen back social media as a campus. I want to hear I like that phrase, I want to hear more about social media as a campus ministry approach.
Speaker 1:All right so walk it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on, educate this old man, educate this old man Caveat with.
Speaker 1:I'm not always the best at this, but it's a reality and I don't know. There's a lot of different strong opinions about should kids have social media, should they not?
Speaker 2:The reality is that a lot of them do A lot of them do Not our decision, always Not our decision.
Speaker 1:So my perspective is that if they're going to be there, that's just another opportunity to engage them. I think engagement looks different than posting your graphic of the event that's coming up. I think that's an avenue to communicate information that parents are going to look at and that's great, but I don't. I think that's an avenue to communicate information that parents are going to look at and that's great. Uh, but I don't think that's. That's not what I would call like social media ministry yeah.
Speaker 2:So maybe you you just resharing the t-shirt graphic on your Instagram? Yeah, Maybe it's good communication, maybe not good. Media ministry yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly Right, but maybe you putting some, some sermon points on there. Hey, just a reminder on Thursday let's go, and here's what we talked about last night. How does that apply to your life?
Speaker 2:If you forgot what I said or you missed it, here it is. For all my friends that spent 10 hours on their sermon. Why in the world wouldn't you want at least a replay out of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it takes such little effort. It takes 30 minutes to put a picture there.
Speaker 2:Especially now, especially like man between canva or recording on your phone or whatever, like the tools that used to be complicated or difficult, you can start a podcast from your phone on your app that, even if it's just for your students that hear, or if you take the time again, you don't have to be professionally done to be done right for what your students need.
Speaker 1:Like man, sit by a window and re recap your sermon in two minutes yeah, that's exactly exactly right and we're very blessed to have um a young lady who goes to our church and she's really good at social media and so uh, it was funny cause we always joke about like.
Speaker 1:I was running the Instagram for a little bit when it was just me and then when she came and she was like hey, do you, do you need some help? Um, she didn't say how that makes you feel, how they make you feel. I was like, oh, you think something's wrong, is it not good? Is the orange text not good on that picture?
Speaker 2:uh, and so she was like more font color, stronger message. Right, yeah, it's all caps, not good so she did wonders you can always say if you go back to her instagram page, you can see where she took over the handoff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's just another thing to someone who's passionate about doing it, who's good at doing it, that wants to connect. So she posts here's the three main points in the passage we went over hey, what's your takeaway this week? And then how can we pray for you this week? And then you post pictures. You have someone that goes around with a tiny mic and they just go like hey little Jimmy, what things like that yeah, so when and when a lot of that's like led by students, they get more buy-in and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So and it's a chance for them to have fun with it. Like that's one of the things, uh, in our never-ending quest for like we're gonna make it right or excellent like man like and we talked about this at lunch a little bit too like so much of what student ministry should be sometimes is a laboratory for learning stuff. Like sometimes it is getting the wrong note or recording the video that I guess it was funny, I didn't get it but it wasn't appropriate, so we'll run with it. Like they need some of those opportunities. Like youth ministry should be a lab for future learning. Like it should not just be the like the place where they like receive a chance to like create and collaborate, and so social media seems to be one of those. That seems to be a chance for new things, especially kids that are like funny or goofy or interested Like I mean I just think about how many students that I had growing up um through ministry that like the corn ball, like class clown kid, doing the announcements was the gift right.
Speaker 2:Like for for shout out for Max and Isaac. Like their announcements were far funnier than I could have done or whatever, and as long as they said the three things I need them to say and didn't call anybody names. It worked out great it was awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, we used to make the. Uh well, not we, but someone better than me. You used to make videos. This was right before, right around the time of Facebook, and they would make like they would basically spoof video every like. I remember the uh, the Friday, it's like here's our announcements in video form In video form. It's incredible. Thank God we can't find those.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're buried. Yeah, hopefully To live and die in a pre-YouTube age where not everything that you recorded was there. Moment for reflection Someday, Okay, sorry, one more for you, man, and this is, I think, mainly at the heart of just knowing you in the last few years and just some of the things that y'all have like I mean COVID as a piece of it, but then also just as kind of representative of a newer or next generation of youth ministry. What are some things that you're doing or leading differently now? We talked a little bit before the recording today.
Speaker 2:Like I think this is year seven. You said like, kind of like a seven or eight in a ministry Chad and I have gone on record that there's something that happens between years four and seven that you either like fall back in love with it or you find ways just to coast and just I'm always encouraged by hearing from you of just like a passion and a zeal to do this. So, like man, like what are you doing different? How are you staying fresh and excited about the thing when other folks, seven years into this, would be kind of like not over it but feeling maybe like the burnout or the weariness of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know there's a couple of different things. I think it's really easy to feel that kind of weary, weary thing, Um, but when you're making student ministry about students and you get basically a new group of students that bring new energy and new weirdness and all the things it's exciting to learn about them and you're like why are you the way you are?
Speaker 2:What did I miss?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think, man, when you get to see new students coming in, that helps kind of fuel, that of like okay, a new group of people that we get to engage and get to learn. And man, I just love people. So I think the more that I'm around people, the more I'm around students, the more fired up I get and I love. I love challenges, and so I think student ministry is a challenge. I think coming out of doing during COVID was a challenge. Coming out of COVID was a challenge, and now you've just got things you've done differently, maybe some things you've got to stop doing and some new things you had to start doing in whatever ministry context you're in, and so that's that's exciting to me to figure that out Now I would I also want to like caveat and say, cause I've heard other leaders on on podcasts or videos or whatever say like they wake up and they're just ready to 110% of everything they do. It's not necessarily always like that. You're going to have some bad days. You're going to do something.
Speaker 2:Some low days, some bummer days.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's just part of the journey, the energy cycle of of leading others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Right. And guess what Other people in other jobs have the same thing.
Speaker 2:That's right, Well man, don't think, if you change church locations, that that would solve it. Sweet Okay.
Speaker 1:All right Anyway. So you know, but I do wake up for the most part excited to do what I get to do. I like to be able to prepare, I like to dream about what God could do in the lives of students, and so I think, man, every year, year and a half, there's just something that that changes, something that's fun that you get to bring in. Um, whether that's a new location, a different service time, like I think you also, you got to change, change it up every once in a while, keep it fresh for yourself, like if you're feeling like, oh, another Wednesday the same old thing, imagine what your students are feeling. So, shake it up a little bit. You think you're tired of this and they, they, maybe they're just too nice to tell you you know. So you gotta, you gotta change it up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm a big believer that leaders are learners and so I would just go learn, go like on social media, see what other churches are doing, Not to compare don't, don't get lost in that game but to see like, hey, why do you structure your service that way, why do you do this? What series do you guys do? And just message people, call people. There's a lot of people out there who are doing things different, not necessarily wrong, not right, just different.
Speaker 2:And it's good to be able to learn about those things and being a student of it too because again, I think that's the temptation is like youth ministry is not complex. Youth ministry is hard, yes, because you're carrying burdens, you're trying to. There's an emotional and relational load and burden that we carry, there is an energy that we are expected to maintain. Ministry is hard but, again, what you shared about campus ministry, what you shared about leading in a post-COVID age, like some of the work, is fundamental, is simple. It's just the willingness to stay consistent enough when the burden gets heavy.
Speaker 1:I think is an important piece yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think something that keeps it fresh, honestly, kind of back to the campus ministry thing, as I was learning, is like there's a lot of other organizations that you think of, like FCA, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. It's fun to try to figure out how can I better partner with them. We're trying to do the same thing, so how do we help each other? How do we go figure out like hey man, you call a buddy, how are you doing school lunches? Do they let you in? That Like, does everybody stare at you when you come?
Speaker 2:into as the old guy Like what's the deal?
Speaker 1:Uh, and so when you're doing some campus ministry things and going out of your way to learn some new styles of how to do that, that's fun to me, that's exciting. And then, as you bring in new volunteers, it's like you get to show them and start all over again. Why did you fall in love with student ministry? Here's what got me into the ministry. Here's some of the great moments, like, yeah, it's going to call, guess who they're going to talk to.
Speaker 1:The small group leader who is faithful, that's right. So, man, when you get to see those things and now we've got a junior and senior class in our student ministry that's really special. We've got two. They were the first group that I started with from scratch when they were seventh graders and now they're about to be seniors and they're crazy and it's awesome.
Speaker 2:And so that's what keeps me coming back. Won't that be like? Isn't that a fruitful blessing? And I think that's uh for anybody that may be feeling in the middle of it right now. If you have been somewhere for a few years and and there's still a chance to stay a little longer, there's something about that full life cycle of beginnings of middle school to graduation day that is unlike anything else, unlike having a student just for a few years when you have been a part of a significant chunk of their formation. Like the buy-in that you have for each other, is man irreplaceable?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's things to be said about longevity. In ministry, and I think in student ministry, longevity doesn't look that long. If we're being honest, it really, you know, it's the average like two years or so.
Speaker 2:In the long, in the long play of things, like you sticking around somewhere five, seven, nine years, like is minimal compared to some other folks, but I think the the reward, if it's the right place, the payoff is even higher. That's exactly right. All right, mike, give us a little bit. If folks want to connect with you more Dude, thanks for coming by today. What an honor. If people want to connect with you more, either on social media as a ministry or sneak in to see what you're doing online or otherwise, what's a good place to find more about you? On Instagram, facebook, snapchat, email or whatever you use, whatever the kids use?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, whatever the kids use these days my tiktok. No, I'm kidding. Uh, I'm pretty much on instagram. Yeah, I wish, I wish I was good enough to stream anything.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm on instagram we're gonna get you a camera on the golf course one day. We're gonna make this happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just follow me a water burger influencer for anybody who works.
Speaker 2:Tell the camera, let them know, let them know, that's your best burger joint.
Speaker 1:you don't have to pay me, I'll just do it for free Just a water burger. Just give me a free burger a month.
Speaker 2:Patty melts, patty melts all the way. Patty melt, payment Large fries Dr Pepper.
Speaker 1:Praise God. No, I mean I'm on Instagram. You can connect with me at micahklin.
Speaker 2:What's the K stand for? Keys it, that's my middle name, keys. Yeah, k-e-y-e-s oh okay, like a family name.
Speaker 1:Actually it is, yeah, my great-grandma.
Speaker 2:Okay, nice, nice, very cool. Bless up, oh man. So on the Instagram, connect and do.
Speaker 1:Micah dude, thank you so much for coming by today.
Speaker 2:It has been so fun to continue to learn more about some of our Youth Ministry friends around. We'll see you guys back next week on another episode of the Ministry Booster podcast. If you like what you heard, make sure to give us a like, rating and review so you don't miss the notifications, updates or things that are next for YMB. Speaking of, if you haven't checked out the community at youthministryboostercom, learn more how you can join a cohort of collaborative fellow ministers. Join the community, find the care, support and resources you need to do ministry well for the longevity of it all. Thank you for listening. We'll see you back next week.
