Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Youth Ministry Worth Fighting Over: Nurture Over Numbers w/ Brian Preston
Ever wondered if chaotic cafeteria brawls could turn into life-changing spiritual moments? Welcome special guest Brian Preston!
NextGen pastor-awesome Brian joins us this week, filling in for Chad, to share his wild and wonderful camp stories straight from our garage recording setup.
It's the end of CampSZN and we reminiscing about youth camps. Brian shares the unforgettable stage-diving episodes that epitomize the essence of these transformative gatherings.
Big Question this week?
What happens when you shift your ministry focus from numbers to nurturing meaningful connections?
This week we dive into this shift, this transition to explore the benefits of prioritizing people over statistics. Our reflections on this summer and previous camp experiences emphasize how stepping outside comfort zones can create lifelong memories and foster incredible bonds.
Discover how seeing the next generation engage in these traditions brings immense joy and enriches our spiritual journeys. Plus, learn about pivotal moments in ministry that redefine our perspectives and growth.
This episode also tackles the challenges in youth ministry and the importance of humility and compassion in our faith journeys. Whole-heartedly we need to be more honest and more humble than ever before.
Brian and Zac also discuss how technology can be both a hurdle and a helpful tool in extending ministry beyond traditional settings.
A snap Ryan Preston, Ryan Preston. What's up man?
Speaker 2:We are literally in a garage.
Speaker 1:We are in the garage, people listen. Some people don't believe it.
Speaker 2:No, this is literally Zach Berkins. No, I'm looking at an old school igloo. Cooler, I'm looking at a secondary fridge in the garage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, got the fridge, got the recycling, we got the recycling, you got an old is that a rug or a poster? I can't tell You've got your miscellaneous shoes that you pile by the door.
Speaker 2:This is a garage.
Speaker 1:It's the garagiest of garages and Brian's here today hanging out in the garage. We're doing a booster podcast today. We've got Brian in the garage with us. So the next few weeks I've got some special guests that are jumping in chat with some travels and some whatnot.
Speaker 2:Emphasis on special.
Speaker 1:Special, special, the best kinds of things. But we're going to talk about ministry with some youth ministry friends. But yeah, hang on the garage. This is kind of like people think you know, oh, you're recording. No, it's really the garage.
Speaker 2:Literally we're here doing the thing A car probably goes right there here doing the thing.
Speaker 1:Car probably goes right there. Karen's car is literally marked off.
Speaker 2:We have the little like carpet tape line ready to go bt dub. Y'all have the exact same car, it's true, you and your wife. I pull up and they're exactly the same it makes it easier for oil changes.
Speaker 1:We just go and we're like give us another one, do it again.
Speaker 2:We love a green subaru I was about to say, in the same color, everything we love a green subaru uh, got them to say in the same color, everything.
Speaker 1:We love a green Subaru. That's nice, got them both. We got them both. Yeah just a couple years apart. You know, we're like siblings Sibling cars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man. But, brian, thanks for coming by today filling in Chad's shoes. But even better because you've got some stories we wear about the same. The same interest in Nike shoes.
Speaker 2:Honestly, we probably could share shoes. Chad, I would like to share shoes with you.
Speaker 1:But you're kind of an Air Max guy, he's an Air Force One guy. I like Air Force Ones. Okay, a little share of real estate there. I'm looking for Air Maxes, though If anybody is a Dunks friend, I'm happy to share Dunks.
Speaker 2:I do like some Dunks too Size 11 1⁄2, 12.
Speaker 1:12, yeah, anybody out there, brian, in the summer we wanted to talk, though camp stories I mean, this is everybody I'm talking to in the industry right now are coming back, either with really great mountain high the Lord hath moved, or you know some of those stories that you just treasure away. So, brian Preston, any recent or forever excellent camp stories that the world should know, Again documented.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of camp stories. Okay, being in ministry as long now as I have and getting a chance to do a lot of times, multiple camps in the summer, yeah, but this year— From many angles.
Speaker 1:Getting to see from many angles.
Speaker 2:Getting to see from many angles this year very sweet, incredible, incredible move of the Lord and thankful for an incredible team of student pastors who allowed God to set the table for God to move, and so God did in a big way In Kansas, of all places too, no, piedmont Missouri, missouri, piedmont Missouri. It is. It's not without like you and mistakes like we we had you know brawls in the cafeteria and all kinds of other things.
Speaker 1:Hold on hold on. What are they brawling about in the cafeteria? Like what I mean? Is that like a day one, like establish my territory brawl. Or is that like a day four? I'm so tired, I'm just looking to pick a fight brawl.
Speaker 2:Early in the week, too fresh. Okay, we won't go into all that. But I do have a great story, one that I share a lot of times. So I am the guy who very much is now embracing, you know, age 37. Yeah, you know, I try to work out and be fit.
Speaker 1:But I understand my limitations. Pushing for it, okay yeah, I understand my limitations. Your knees remind you. You understand your limitations.
Speaker 2:But at one point or another I thought I was a little bit more capable than I was. And honestly I was probably heavier than I am now. But we were doing a camp one time and we would do these rec rallies. So we'd go to rec, but before then we would come together around a circle, do chants, cheers. You know music's blaring, so kids are doing backflips off the stage. I'm really hyped. So one thing I know is that, like, if you want to see vulnerability in the evening, man exhaust them during the day.
Speaker 2:Okay With a lot of hype, with a lot of energy and and God will. God will get you there, but we would do these.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait. Tired morning, tearful evening. Did you just give away the game? That is the game Tired mornings, tearful evenings. You heard it first. Brian Preston uh energy breeds uh vulnerability, though, oh okay, there you go.
Speaker 2:You write that At this point. This is probably like a 15-minute ordeal At this point. I've already now stage-dived twice at camp that week.
Speaker 1:So this is not an uncommon thing. So I've stage-dove maybe that's the right term off the stage at a late night.
Speaker 2:I've done it once at Rec Rally. I'm good right, these kids are buying the energy there. He goes BP again. I go, you know, I'm feeling it, I'm getting hype, I'm feeling all the energy well enough. And I just thought, oh, this is the moment Music's blaring this is the moment. I'm going to do it again. Third time's a charm right.
Speaker 1:Third time's not a charm. Wait, hold on. Back it up. The first two times did it? Did it end well?
Speaker 2:it ended well. Oh, like I have confidence in my abilities at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, dove and caught. So third time, yeah, the third time, I'm like, oh, like, I'm a pro right, right.
Speaker 1:And they see me, they ready, they know like I'm like oh they're, they're asking for it, you know.
Speaker 2:So I go. Uh, I get excited, I go to to stage dive and when I do, I dive out over the crowd, right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I turn my body. And it's at this point that I'm looking ahead and I see I've made a mistake. I have stage dove towards a group not of well-to-do senior boys who can catch me and hurl me the yoke? Dudes, the yoke dudes. No, this is now.
Speaker 2:I'm looking and I'm seeing like scrawny sixth grade guys and the fear yeah, I saw the terror in their eyes, yeah they looked at me, I'm looking, I mean it's like slow motion here and I'm coming across and now the fear is welling up in my face. They decide, probably intelligently, to move, move to the side very quickly and I go staged out. Thankfully, I kind of turned my body, but I landed smack dab on a slab of concrete.
Speaker 1:And Chad, oh gosh, zach. E-c-dub. E-c-dub.
Speaker 2:E-C-dub Zach, I lay there on the concrete.
Speaker 1:I guarantee you for 30 minutes Just rethinking your life.
Speaker 2:I hit the ground and I went go to rec.
Speaker 1:The kids go to wreck and I'm just laying there, people are coming up to check on me.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I'm good, it's more my pride.
Speaker 1:But my back was also hurting, so I was just in there laying on this concrete for 30 minutes I like the idea of you dismissing the session from a broken position on the floor I love the idea of you just like laid up cockroach pose Just go.
Speaker 2:Everybody's looking in like shocking like is he dead?
Speaker 1:Go to wreck.
Speaker 2:And they go.
Speaker 1:Well, you know the hero's journey of arriving that night not in a back brace.
Speaker 2:That's one of the stories that to this day, I have never staged Dove again.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean that would.
Speaker 2:It is a trauma experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. It's a formative thing that will stick with you. Yeah, no camp. And again, that's something that you probably. That's. One of the things I love about camp is like it's hard to imagine many scenarios on a Sunday or even a Wednesday, where you're like, bro, the energy's right, I'm about to dive out top of these kids, but at camp it's like that's just Thursday, like that could be Thursday but you could be ready.
Speaker 2:That's the beauty of camp. Yeah, you will do so many things that you never thought you would do Right, but you will do them at camp.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's so for all the folks that either if you're in your last week of camp, God bless you. If you are finished up and you're like looking in your journal and it's become a prayer journal instead of a thought journal, God bless you. But hopefully in the midst of some of those crazy things too, Even last night. So I was hanging out with our young dad's group at church last night and the stories that we were telling about summer stuff, because we're now old enough that, like our boys, are going to like elementary kids camp.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah about summer stuff, because we're now old enough that, like our boys are going to like elementary kids camp. Oh yeah, like we're all 37, 38 and we have stories of going to camp and those things are just so formative and like in positive ways too. Not just the like gross we had some funny prank stories and whatever but like man sitting with a couple guys, like those are the moments that they still like recount and they're looking forward to like I want my kid to go to the camp that I went to and like that's a beautiful thing that's hard to know.
Speaker 2:Working on it at 26 yeah, working on a staff team of people where, like you all at longevity, you've all been there, maybe experienced multiple years. That's the beauty, like even not even with just our student team, but like with other staff members who have done student camp with us for multiple years. It is so fun, man. Yeah, and just banter back and forth. Oh, you remember when?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like those are like that's where stories are made the worst experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the worst, the best, the unbelievable it happens there. That's where it happens. Well, one of the things I think in this mode of interviewing some friends is just like, can we learn from you? Like I've always been taken with podcasts as a chance to be kind of like a tribe of mentors, or like I know that I've always learned from the folks we've gotten to talk to, and so for our folks listening to learn from your wisdom, like you've been in ministry for a long time, you served in multiple places in Tennessee and Oklahoma, served at a variety of size churches at a variety of size levels, now overseeing next-gen ministry for kids and students and families.
Speaker 1:But like what was and maybe there's more than one. But if you had to pick like a key one, like a pivotal moment where, like you, grew leaps and bounds, or you like rethought or re-dig, I think for a lot of us in ministry, more than just the things that we get to do, there's like certain chapters along the way. Sometimes that ties to a person, sometimes that ties to a place that we get to serve. But in your own journey, like what was like a or one of the like pivotal moments of your ministry path.
Speaker 2:That's a great question, I think, for me. I'm convinced that you don't get into student ministry without at least some level of ambition to want to charge the hill, take the hill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make a difference, make a difference.
Speaker 2:And for me early on it was like getting caught in the rat race of I want to see the church grow.
Speaker 1:I want to see the ministry go forward.
Speaker 2:I want to see, and so like in a lot of ways I got, you know, got caught up in like how can we just like, just grow? Do, really probably for lack of better phrasing numbers driven? Of like you know how many people can we go get all that kind of stuff? And I think for me—.
Speaker 1:The optimistic read is how do we expand ministry? Maybe if some folks are feeling a little pessimistic is like how do we grow? But either way, making a difference, kingdom difference, making kingdom difference.
Speaker 2:I was going to say the heart to one of these people hasn't changed, but one of the things that has is just is, I think towards my latter years in Tennessee, and even probably more so, predominantly when I came to Oklahoma, was realizing one how much is enough in terms of hills, that we're going to try to tackle. The heartbeat. I want to reach people hasn't changed.
Speaker 2:I want to reach as many people as we possibly can, but I think what changed for me was going how can we uh become, how can I really become better at uh getting to? The heart of people, not just like brushing past, hurting yeah, you know all that but like how can I really shepherd people well as a leader? And I think that that's where I looked at, you know, through a lot of humility and a lot of humbling experiences, but also looking at the ministry of Jesus and going man. Jesus, you know, didn't rush to hurt people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he was quietly moving, but asking questions, steering to the heart of people, really loving people well, and I think that's where my mindset began to shift from not just how much can I do and how much can I accomplish and I didn't say this earlier but trying to be known for a lot of the things that I did Could produce yeah, produce yeah.
Speaker 2:But now, instead of that, but how many more people can I empower and encourage and exhort and push to be involved in what God is wanting to do? And the ministry will grow because we're going to reach people. But it's also going to grow because now my heart is not just how much can I do and be identified with, but how can I slow down and connect with people and encourage and empower and exhort them to do ministry really well and effectively? I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:No but say more Okay. So I recognize, identify with the move from production to presence, because I think there is a tempo that comes with doing ministry a little longer.
Speaker 1:I think for everybody's first few years it feels like a rush and it's an excitement rush and I think that's one of few years it feels like a rush, Like, like it is this and it's an excitement rush and I think that's one of the things to name is an excitement rush. How did that affect, like, your weekly workflow? Cause that's always something that like to break it down practically, people are always asking in the booster community and even in some of the Facebook groups that we that we chat in with, like, like, how do you set up your week? Was there something like in the rhythm of your week? Were you doing stuff differently? Were you doing more, doing less? Were you prioritizing differently? Because I recognize, identify with the heart shift, but how did that play out for somebody who's like, driven and producing?
Speaker 2:Like how did you order your days differently? I think it's you're still going to have to manage tasks, right?
Speaker 1:You're still going to have to get done.
Speaker 2:You're still going to have to accomplish responsibilities that you have in front of you. I think the biggest shift for me in my schedule was prioritizing people over tasks and when I would focus on like how can I, how many more people can I engage with and build relationships with and connection during the week? And then that term became how can I now like not just connect with them for the sake of shooting the breeze, but really discipleship looks a lot of different ways, right?
Speaker 2:So it's not just I'm walking through a Bible study with somebody, but it's as I'm going and teaching them and showing them how to do ministry. So as my work week would go, it was more shifting to people. And how can I now start coaching other people to do some of these tasks? And that's where one I began to see the capacity go way beyond me, because now we can effectively accomplish way more tasks because all these people are doing so much more. And my week is really more consumed with relationships and connecting with people.
Speaker 2:Now, you can't be the guy that just goes up in a coffee shop and sits for 10 hours and reads the Bible and talks to people.
Speaker 1:I mean you can, you can.
Speaker 2:You can, but I think that like to the point of, at some level, how do I get to the heart of people but then also coach them? How can I also develop them? As a pastor, as a minister? My job is to equip the saints. So how can I come alongside of them and not just hear their story, they hear mine. But now we move to a level of how can I encourage them, coach them, develop them to help accomplish ministry?
Speaker 1:Well, that's one thing I've always valued from our time together is like the conversations aren't just relational, I think, in the way that most folks would couch it, as like we caught up, like our relationship is good because we caught up with each other. That added layer of like either challenge or coaching or drawing out of somebody, that I think, again, for folks that are in a ministerial or pastoral role, there is a level of spiritual authority that I again, discipleship is always the question what do I do next? And I think if you have the relationship or the bandwidth that you're meeting with someone as their minister, whether they're your volunteer or a student or a family in your ministry, beyond just, are we good? But like growing them and the line that you share, like it will grow the ministry. I think that's one of the things that some people can get twisted is that we'll grow the ministry by adding more people, but the trust factor is growing, the people in the ministry, that will indeed grow the ministry.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing that we always talk about with empowering volunteers in your ministry, but the goal is to grow it beyond you. Yeah, Well.
Speaker 1:I can't just. Don't just get more volunteers, it's not just more volunteers. You adding 10 more volunteers to do what right? To do what? How can I pour myself into one person who's then going to?
Speaker 2:pour into three. Yeah, one person. Who's then going to pour into three?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. If you couldn't do man, it sounds like Jesus. If you weren't faithful with the three you had, what were you going to do with 13 more? He might have been on to something. Oh gosh, oh man. No, faithful little and faithful in much. Okay, all right, brian, tell us the goods, though. We want the goods. What is working in your ministry? Now, this is a question. Youth ministry at its healthiest is a collaborative game. Sometimes we get competitive, but just what's maybe not doesn't work for everybody. Give us the contextual spiel. But like what is like right now as you look at your team. Like man, if you want, and you always are so good about bragging on people, but like man, like what's something? Right now you're like man, I don't know, but it's working.
Speaker 2:Well, two things come to mind immediately but it's working well.
Speaker 2:Two things come to mind okay, immediately, one, two for one. I like it and well, these are two things that I think everybody can do okay, okay. So, yes, they are contextualized to what's going well right now at battle creek church and and within student ministry or kids ministry, but it is, uh, something that I think everybody can do okay. But one of the things that I think battle creek church is, does well and is known for is the emphasis on community, and it really is. It's not just I mean, we've all said the lines right of like, we're not just a church of our community, but For our community.
Speaker 1:We're for our people or with community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, however it's said, but I think for us it's not just. It is literally a DNA piece of who we are. So, everything that we do, we are evaluating the content, every piece of content that we make, every piece of programming that we do, anything that we are going to be about, we're going to run it through the filter of where is connection, relationship and community, and that has to be a priority, or else it doesn't work, because, at the end of the day, that's what people are coming for. They're coming for connection.
Speaker 1:They're coming for relationship.
Speaker 2:That's what's going to keep them there even long term. Yes, if you want to go online and watch a great sermon, you can watch them anywhere.
Speaker 1:There's so many sermons online.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're not coming just for a great message.
Speaker 1:You guys even put your sermons. I watch your sermons and I'm not even there.
Speaker 2:You may have an incredible teacher and communicator and we do, but I say that to say it's more, that we are focused on community. So we in our adult ministry, for sure we're I mean, pastors are saying it all the time Like you have to be in community. This is the vehicle to take content, take a message and apply it to your life. Um, but it is not just, uh, even for that. It's like, even in next-gen ministry, as we evaluate, even from young kids, how much time do we allot for them to actually have smogger time, not just a kid's theater, but actual time to connect in a smogger, and it may look different, it's not gonna look like an adult smogger, but that's right. But how can we infuse community? So I say, with students in, like camp's a great example.
Speaker 2:We were talking about camp. We infuse community in every aspect of what we do in camp. So in the worship sessions, community groups, obviously. But then, like how we do rec, it's all community group based. You know the skills in the afternoon, it's all community group based. So, like all those different things, we're going, hey, there's value in this, even a year out, with our dream team, our volunteers, we're saying, hey, you need to start setting aside time and vacation time in your work schedule so you can be at camp so you can be at T-Well Weekend, some of these things that we?
Speaker 2:do because it is the 50 weeks of the year outside of that times two. It is the relational equity that you need with that small group that you're not going to get in just the week to week.
Speaker 1:That, like actually plan your vacay. We'd rather you miss our regularly scheduled week than to miss this weekend.
Speaker 2:And letting them know, like letting them know that it's not like this is not just an optional thing, this is the thing, and it's taken a long time to get to that point where a lot of our people like now it's like it is second nature, Like we don't struggle to find a lot of volunteers for camp because we talk about it all the time of why it's so valuable for them to be there. But it took some time to get there, so you got to start now in July for next June.
Speaker 1:Talking about it Talking about it?
Speaker 2:How do you start getting volunteers With your people to set aside those things? So community, I think, would be the first part and you can give commentary to that. I've got another one.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, the community thing is so good, but I want to double down on what you said about how you're inviting people to come serve, not just last minute, but year round. I think that is something that we could all learn. Again, you said it, this is something for everybody. If you need help in ministry, the best time to ask is to ask now for next and not when it feels like it's too late.
Speaker 2:Well, even in the onboarding process, as you're like bringing in volunteers in your ministry, like we set the expectation in front, hey, just so you know, we're going to ask you to serve at these other events because they're going to, it's going to bake it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's going to build so much more equity. Part of being a great leader isn't just the Sunday. Ask it is the camp or the D-Now or the whatever, because that's where some of this stuff happens too. Okay, community, buy into it. Buy into it.
Speaker 2:So community, I think, is one thing, and then the other thing. I think that I grew tired several years ago of being the guy that was calling all the time other churches are going. Hey, got any recommendations on staff?
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, you have anybody that you can send my name, any names you got for me right and no fault if that's you right now.
Speaker 2:But I grew tired of that and one of the things that we begin to do is go okay, how can we lay the groundwork to develop our own people?
Speaker 2:so that we're not constantly having to go find other people. Now, this may not work in your context, but I do think it can. And for us, at the same time that I was looking to go, how can we develop our volunteers, those who feel called to ministry, all that kind of stuff? At the same time, our church got really serious and heavily invested in our Battle Creek internship program.
Speaker 2:So, we run a six-month internship program that is a full-time paid internship, okay, so giving some incentive, but the goal being for, regardless of like, if it's a fresh out of high school kid or somebody who's just graduated college or even older maybe, if they feel called to vocational ministry or they're wrestling even with that call, this is an opportunity for them to come in six months, work, make money and be able to experience different elements of ministry. So at the same time, those things were happening, but we began to kind of put in how can we develop our staff? And so I think one of the things that we're doing really well right now is developing staff and future staff, and so we are focused on how can we not just create a pipeline although that is true, like I want to create a pipeline of people to draw from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But also how can we develop people for the Capital C Church, the next generation of pastors for the church? So, literally in the last two years we've hired, I think, three full-time— we've hired three full-time staff that were formerly volunteers. Yeah, yeah, yeah so they felt called to ministry. We developed them and now they're hired and serving on our team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, From other professions right Like they were working. Like this wasn't like they were. I mean because I know a little bit of the story and so these weren't like folks that were like waiting around for a ministry job. You hired them from the field, like from whatever they were teaching or leading or directing or doing, into a ministry role. I think that's careful to note Because I think sometimes the pipeline for folks is Bible college into church work. Some of your people may have been called call them home.
Speaker 2:I'll make the statement as somebody who went to Bible college and seminary seminaries exist because the church failed to develop people for ministry. So now do we need both? Absolutely, and I'm a product of. But how can we do a better job as a church to develop people for ministry long-term? And so we've hired three of those. We've also hired five now interns Battle Creek interns who have gone through the program as full-time vocational staff within our NextGen ministry, and we've launched out four full-time student pastors in different areas across the country. So in the last two years, however many people that is, we're saying hey, we want to be serious about this, hey, four other churches.
Speaker 1:you're welcome, you're welcome.
Speaker 2:But my heart in that is one I grew tired of always trying to reach out to other people, and we wanted to create something that would be sustainable for our church long-term, but also to develop the next generation of pastors.
Speaker 2:So my challenge even in that is I think all of us can do that, yeah, and we may be doing it really well and I'm really proud of it, but I think most churches can go hey, how do we get serious about developing people to potentially not just come on our staff eventually but to launch people into vocational ministry long-term?
Speaker 1:That bigger picture too, of seeing them again. Not just we're filling a role for now, but that's going to matter. It's going to matter. Brian, tell us a little bit.
Speaker 1:You know, because we got a lot of people asking us all the time for names and recommendations. I had two phone calls today, yeah, so one of the things I always want to ask folks that have been in youth ministry for a while I'll let you fill in the blank for a number of years, but for someone who's been almost 20 years, there are some things that have changed and there are some challenges that have remained the same. If you're looking out to a group of youth ministry leaders, what are the things that you would note, highlight or move up the chart, either in a new way or an evergreen way? That are the challenges. You don't have resolutions, but what are the challenges of youth ministry today?
Speaker 2:I think the challenges are culture has progressed so rapidly that we're dealing with a lot of um, not necessarily foreign issues, but they're multiplying in a different way. So, like you may have had people in the past who were struggling with, you know, gender identity or whatever, but now it's multiplied into multiple different ways, so, like how do we, how do we come alongside all these different people and minister to them?
Speaker 2:So I think we've got to do a better job at the church of equipping ourselves for how to engage culture well. Also, think like it or love it, which I don't love it, but like it or love it. We're in a technological age, so how can we continue not just to be dedicated to a social platform or a technological platform, but also don't ignore it and be conscientious of it, so that we can continue to reach more people for the gospel?
Speaker 1:well, no and again I think that's something that I mean a lot of folks would agree with the rate at which the problems seem to quantify, multiply, but also the technology that allows us to connect with students beyond our gathering times. We talked about it before on the podcast Youth ministry doesn't just exist for 90 minutes during a midweek. You have ample opportunity, through a variety of means and technologies, to keep up mentor, disciple and connect with your students, and to not leverage those as tools seems like missed opportunity.
Speaker 2:I mean knowledge. What, like? Eight years ago, knowledge was doubling, like every 12 to 18 months. Now it's doubling, like every 12 to 18 hours. So it's like it's crazy. And how can we? We're never going to probably keep up, but how can we at least equip ourselves to meet culture where it's at? Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:Okay, one more for you. What?
Speaker 2:about the strength.
Speaker 1:What's the thing? That's the same. Well, I don't know, I don't really know. We'll get there, we'll get there. I want to know two more things from you. I want to know how you're growing spiritually. That's one of the things, the things that stay the same, like hopefully.
Speaker 2:It's relationships. By the way, it's relationships.
Speaker 1:Well, how are you still growing as a leader? I think this is something that Chad and I have reinforced is that ministry can be figured out generally. The challenge of ministry is staying wholehearted into it. So how are you continuing to grow? What's pushing you?
Speaker 2:What's challenging you, Brian, Not your ministry, not your church, but you, brian Preston. So I'll preface it with the understanding that we, because of some things that have happened in ministry, like our focus in this next season within our NextGen staff, is like how can we pursue spiritual wholeness? Well, and that starts with me. So how can I pursue spiritual wholeness? Well, how can I pursue holiness, how can I pursue Jesus above everything else? So I may have a task, a responsibility, a job, a ministry, a family that God's called me to lead, but if I don't lead myself, then how can I lead others? Well, and so spending time, ample time, in community with the Lord, in communion with the Lord. So for me, practically, it's sitting down, it's walking through scripture together. Right now I've got a kid, uh, who is nine years old.
Speaker 1:I've got two, actually, but uh, one but nine year old in tow today hanging out with my kiddo yeah, I love it. That's. That's literal garage, literal house. They're playing, playing, playing FIFA in the house right now.
Speaker 2:So, but for him, specifically right now, doing the thing. So but for him, specifically right now, like I feel pressed to take my time with the lord from the office, where it's been like a habit and original for a long time, and bring it home so that I can not just not just pursue the lord in my own life every day well, but also set an example for a kid who's watching, and, and so I think for me it's going. Who are the people around you that may be watching that?
Speaker 2:you can set the example of what it looks like to pursue Jesus and read His Word on a daily basis, and so for me it's doing those things. It's also being in community Again, we talked about it earlier, but that applies to you as a staff person too, or as a minister. You've got to be in community. You've got to have people that you can commune with, and talk with, and break things down with, and process with, and certainly from a spiritual standpoint, but also just in general, or else we're going to be sideways.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, being that empty cipher of just someone who's performing ministry man that's bringing, bringing your quiet time home is.
Speaker 2:It's number one. It was hard for me because I'm so rhythm-based. Well, that's how we start.
Speaker 1:It's our most important professional task yet. Being caught reading Scripture at home. It's my blue chair in the front room that is in the morning early where.
Speaker 1:I sit, it's book, it's Bible, it's journal, and it's not for show, it's before they all wake up. But it is like that's book, it's bible, it's journal, um, and it's not for show, it's before they all wake up, but it is like that's where, that's where it starts and I think again, uh, getting caught reading scripture, not to impress your children, but to show your children, is it's important well, one thing that, and, going to the spiritual wholeness, one thing that god has really uh, keeps drawing me back to second corinthians 12 9.
Speaker 2:Like one, his is sufficient, but his power is made strong in my weakness and on my own accord. Like other scriptures that point out like when we operate in our own flesh, we operate out of death is what the scripture says. So I'm a weak man who will struggle and who is not perfect and needs help, and so, knowing that other translations say that God's power is made best in our weakness and so like, for me I go okay, time with the Lord is not just a I'm going to get closer to Jesus, but it's also kind of a daily admitting I can't do this on my own and I need help.
Speaker 1:Okay, one more, and this is for all those that are really thankful what you said, but you want to know the story behind it. What is something that you've learned, maybe the hard way that you'd want others to know, like what is some brian preston personal wisdom, ministerial life like? Hard for me but maybe helpful for you to know.
Speaker 2:I think the thing that I come back to is probably a lot of what I was just alluding to. So early on for me in ministry I was kind of a good kid, came out of a great Christian home, went to Bible college but quickly, not really having done a lot of understanding of repentance and confession in my own life, started building kind of two separate lives One that looked really good on the surface with church world and then another one behind closed doors hiding and sin growing. And early on in ministry one God humbled me in a big way and tore a lot of things down. I'll say this God will only allow you to steal his glory for so long and he's going to get his glory. And so for me it was a quick learning of it's not just I can't operate. If I operate out of my flesh, I operate out of death.
Speaker 2:But it's been a daily reminder since that period of time that even from a ministry standpoint I'm a prideful dude who is very confident in my own ability and thinks really highly of myself at times. And I have to daily remind myself of God. You are in control of this thing, john 3.30,. He must increase, I must decrease, and that has been a constant reminder for me of God. That has been the pivotal moment early on in ministry and I'm thankful, thankful that it was one of those moments really heavily early on in ministry so that I didn't have to necessarily continue to grow in sin and hide things, but it was something that happened early on. That was a pivotal shift to going. I don't want to be the guy that's just seen and known. I want to be the guy that builds other people's up. The picture that God's always given me is Aaron and her holding the arms of Moses.
Speaker 2:How can I come alongside other people and elevate them? And that was a pivotal shift for me, ministry-wise. It really changed the way that I operated, I led, how I did things, and it really encouraged other people to do the same.
Speaker 1:Man and that heart to deeply care about another, and especially this is one of the things that we've talked about that's fostered in our friendship is to care about other ministers. It breaks my heart that more ministry leaders don't care enough about the well-being of other ministry leaders. There are some folks that secretly or no secretly, silently or not so silently, like cheer when someone who seems like an opponent in ministry either, or a competitor, because they were at the church down the road or they're from a different theological brand yeah, they're like ha, I knew it. Yeah, and that or oh man that stinks, oh darn darn them.
Speaker 1:yeah god, I can't believe it would happen to a guy like that, and just how important that this is and you've said it before the Big C Church. But more than the organization, it's little C Christians chasing after Big C Christ, and I think that is something that we as a people have got to cultivate a compassion for, to see our spot that we would lift others higher than ourselves.
Speaker 2:It's something that we've walked through, even amongst our staff of recent days. But if restoration and understanding the humility of ministry is not prevalent or you struggle with it, reach out, because one of the things that we want to continue to see is that it's a sobering reminder, every time it happens, of I'm but one dumb mistake away, stupid decision, away from being in the exact same spot.
Speaker 2:And so, God, would you humble me today, draw out any wicked ways in me so that I can repent, confess and continue to grow forward in my relationship with Christ daily. That's a prayer daily, so that we don't get to the same spots.
Speaker 1:Well, my friend, thanks for coming by today. Always good to have friends in the garage, and so we'll see you back in a couple of weeks with some more friends on the Euthanasia Booster Podcast, and we'll talk to you soon, come on.
