Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
Youth Ministry Leadership And Handling Criticism
People can be mean! Or if we are being honest... how do you handle the unfiltered honesty of middle school girls in youth ministry?
In this fresh episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast, Zac and Chad bring their humor and truthfulness to tackle it!
Chad + tortilla = hilarious.
What is something you have been told something that was hateful... by a student?
We’ve got stories like that and more as we confront the tough reality of receiving criticism in youth ministry. Check out this episode for practical strategies process feedback without losing your cool. Friendship, filters, and fresh air all help!
This episode underscores the importance of emotional health, both through your closest ministry relationships and friendships outside of work, ensuring that you're grounded and ready to face each challenge with grace and a smile.
So get ready for a laugh and some heartfelt stories that reflect the resilience needed to handle the candid feedback from our young students while still forging meaningful connections.
snack. Hey, and we're back with another episode of the youth ministry booster podcast. My name is zach, working hanging out in the garage with my best friend, chad hins.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of emphasis in that one, oh.
Speaker 1:So here's the thing A little too much, you know we start these and oh no, you know, you fire away sometimes Just coming in hot, just too hot, too hot for the people. There's a lot of peaks right there. Hey, we're getting a level on it, A booster. Sorry everybody.
Speaker 2:My name is Chad Higgins. Zach, you know I was a little bit critical of your intro right there. You're a little harsh and I apologize.
Speaker 1:A little unnecessarily harsh.
Speaker 2:I am very thankful that you start us out each of these Faithfully, and you're also controlling our sound and video and all that.
Speaker 1:No, just making it happen on the fly. This has actually helped me. It helps me.
Speaker 2:It helps me yeah yeah, yeah, you know, but we're not always critical to each other. Oh, that's right. Sometimes we're maybe too critical of ourself to ourself.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely self-critical.
Speaker 2:But there is a group that I know of Of critical people, critical people, and they don't even know Inside the church or outside the church, inside both.
Speaker 1:Inside the church.
Speaker 2:Inside, outside, oh wow, anywhere they live, Trolls. Trolls and sadducees is a word and it's a group of people that are dissenting. We know them we love them.
Speaker 1:Do our listeners know who these people are?
Speaker 2:Oh've met them. They've met them. They've met them. Oh, what have? What have they met in some? Uh, it's the middle school girl. They're ruthless, my guy.
Speaker 1:There's no one meaner than a middle school. Why do you say there's no one meaner I. I just so something about a middle school girl, because you know that, like she's been subjected to like lots of online, I mean that's. It's a painful age that we live in?
Speaker 1:yeah, she's just living in Instagram she's living in Instagram, which is a dark vortex of criticism. But the thing, the thing that, like, I worry for them about, like sometimes bubbles up in the way in which it gets us because they'll say, sometimes the meanest thing with a smile and a skip, because they don't even know it's me, they don't even know it's me, that's. That's the thing. They don't even know it's mean, which makes them the meanest, because I remember you called last summer.
Speaker 1:Uh, there was a moment that you were crushed, crestfallen well at a camp crushed is a, is a word, I.
Speaker 2:It took me to a place a dark place. You were rethinking a fashion, fit, function every summer you and I do it a little bit. Uh, we, we accept maybe like one or two or a couple camps of the kids camps to go I choose the camps that I get to go to based on.
Speaker 1:Is there things for my kids to do there?
Speaker 2:because it's super fun to be camp pastor, dad and like swim and play loads of tag and stuff so I was speaking at a camp and I have, I have a shirt in my wardrobe that is like a it's like a tanish shirt and it's got little kind of speckles of like.
Speaker 1:Can we say who makes the shirt?
Speaker 2:it's a car heart big fan chad higgins, big fan of car shirts he celebrates.
Speaker 1:They don't shrink, they're great. Got the, got the whole range of colors. I bought all the colors. I bought them all um the whole catalog. I did, so Got that robin egg blue Got that springtime green.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the robin egg blue is a great because they also make a tan version of that. It's got little speckles.
Speaker 1:What's it called? I don't know. Okay. Well because it's got a new name based on this story.
Speaker 2:Dirt on dirt.
Speaker 1:Oh dirt ready. Oh dirt road, dirt ready. Oh dirt road, dirt road. Yeah, you go.
Speaker 2:So I'm wearing this shirt middle of the day. It's hot, we're in Florida, yeah, and I'm hanging out.
Speaker 1:A tan shirt in Florida is your first mistake.
Speaker 2:I'm just, you know, trying not to be a Florida man.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I'm hanging out with students and I remember we're at the lunchroom, cafeteria and.
Speaker 1:I like to that's where the mean girls spawn Right.
Speaker 2:So one of the things I always like to do as a communicator is I will always try to eat with the students and I'll just jump at a table and chat with them and hang out.
Speaker 1:Hey, what's up WWE? What's new in the world of chess? Yeah, just this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, all the questions they're asking, I sat down at a table of middle school girls and we'd start talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And this one girl Maybe even dishing Were you guys dishing a little?
Speaker 2:bit. I have no idea what that means, spilling tea, they'll know.
Speaker 1:Spilling tea, they know.
Speaker 2:So I'm hanging out. One of these middle school girls looks at my brown on brown shirt and she Tinged with sweat In the kindest way possible.
Speaker 1:What's her name? What's her name? Like Micheline, I don't know. After her comment Jessalyn.
Speaker 2:I refuse to learn her name and so, in the kindest way possible, tells me she goes. You look like a tortilla Just ripped as a 40 year old man. You don't know how to respond to that, so I said fake.
Speaker 1:That's not dope, yo A tortilla, I look like a tortilla.
Speaker 2:I went back to my cabin and I changed.
Speaker 1:Changed and cried, wiped my tears in my tortilla t-shirt, just softened them up, rolled them neatly in my suitcase. Oh my gosh, you rolling the tortilla shirt into your suitcase and being like, oh crap, it's a burrito shirt now. That's everything. It was a rough day. You're rolling the red one inside of the brown one and you're like, oh it's a burrito.
Speaker 2:I mean, she wasn't wrong, that's what was the problem?
Speaker 1:I went back I was like it does look like a tortilla, yeah, but she didn't. She didn't know that you shed tears from that comment, but it's okay. I mean, they do that sometimes, where they just they're making observations that are critical, but because they say them with a smile like you don't know what to do, like because you don't know and you're afraid for the follow-up, because if that was the general observation, having them say more may eviscerate you. No, you don't want to lean into that. Yeah, yeah, what else do you? What other comments do you want me? What else do you?
Speaker 2:think of me assess me further.
Speaker 1:Um, but that's, yeah, you know. Uh, I had a middle school girl tell me I looked pregnant once. I didn't know where to put that. I don't think she was even being mean about it. I think she was just like, you know, your belly looks round. I was like, wow, I'm going to cry Because that's, you know, that's the nature of Teenagers. Teach us Again, for all the work that we hope to do in youth ministry, don't make this philosophical. No, they're just mean. They're just really mean. They're just really mean individuals.
Speaker 1:But we wanted to talk about that today because sometimes you may be at camp this summer really proud of the shirt that you bought. And so this is our conversation, though, on criticism, because I do think that's one of the things that nobody has taken the time to talk about in youth ministry. Enough is receiving it. One, asking for it. Two, receiving it when we've asked for it or haven't asked for it. And three, knowing what to do with it. Like, that is something that I get. We laugh the tortilla thing.
Speaker 1:I immediately went on a diet after the pregnant comment, but like, how much does it get to weigh? How much do we allow it to use a hymn language. How long does it tarry? How long does it carry out? Because some of it is baseless, some of it's based and some of it because it's based like we want to do something with it. And so, whether or not it's something that we said or taught or did, or how we look or how we planned or organized an event I'll never forget in one of my first church assignments I was really excited about this like pre-camp sign-up night.
Speaker 1:We had like food and stuff and we had like some live music of the band that would be at camp and people signed up, but it I don't know if I didn't communicate it well enough. Um, but one of the deacons that like helped and like lent us his trailer for the band to play on, like I guess for him because there was no like altar call for this pre-camp sign up, literally in the smallest comment, was like what was the point of tonight even? And as a 23 year old, I felt pretty devastated because I remember getting people signed up for camp but for him to like not have known and again, looking back, I should have just told him right then what it was about. But it'll, it'll tear you up and it'll carry for a long time and even today, I still think about how, at the end of this big night that was so exciting, with big plans, I left devastated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for us, what are, zach, looking back at time of ministry, and then even like where you are now? Where you are now, what are things that we can do before the critique that can put us in, I don't know, call it like an emotional healthy state. Yeah, that when those things come, it doesn't like wreck us, because I think for some of us, we all handle criticism differently, because I think for some of us, we all handle criticism differently. Yeah, and some of the people that think they handle criticism well, I've noticed, don't? They're just willing to fight and that's also not a good posture.
Speaker 1:They're willing to fight or that's their defense mechanism, and I think that's one of the things I would encourage you is know what your defense posture is. Okay, Talk more about that. Some people like they just it's floodgates open. Anybody that wants to make a comment, make a comment, take a comment, let it all flood in and then they sort it out later. I don't know if that's wrong or not. I'm a little bit that way. I'm a little bit spongy that I let all the comments roll in and then I try to wr ring out the ones that make sense of like this was good, this was bad, and so maybe for some of those comments, not letting them stick too close until you have time to process later.
Speaker 1:I think for some folks, defensive posture is walls are all the way up so things just bounce off, Like people were trying to help and like you just never hear any of it because you don't want to hear any of it. And and like you just never hear any of it because you don't want to hear any of it. And it's like, well, like some of that actually might have been helpful, but you just weren't ready to receive it. So I think, knowing those two postures. Some folks, because they're so concerned, will start fawning for the like, tell me. Tell me, I did good. Right, we did good, the things are good. Like I, that was great. Tell me more. Knowing that that could be your posture means that you're seeking out feedback but you're only wanting the positive, means that if you're not ready for both, maybe you're not ready for just the glossy take, because that gives you a little bit misinformation. But the thing that I would want to encourage you the most is having the right season to receive it. We have some dear friends. We talked about this in some of our preaching stuff.
Speaker 1:You don't need to hear the feedback immediately and so letting folks know. I think sometimes having a form for an event or having an appointment calendar of like man, if parents are frustrated, having them try, try to like you entertaining their frustration Wednesday at 8.15 as kids are leaving not the best time If you can sense their frustration, schedule it. I think sometimes scheduling the feedback, either through forms, through meetings or through like a later date, is really helpful because you can like ready yourself. So your immediate postures don't kick in of either like letting too much or letting in nothing at all. So I think having that, but I think one of the biggest things that we want to talk about today is having the circle of trust that you actually do allow to speak both wisdom and critique.
Speaker 1:The middle school girl is going to make the comment and yeah, maybe you don't buy that color t-shirt again for the camp t-shirt. But that isn't the circle of trust that you're turning to week in and week out for validating the who you are and what we are about. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but I think I want to go ahead and set up the circle of trust really matters.
Speaker 2:For me, the beforehand, most of the time for myself and for others, and this was such a big growing moment for me and it's something that I still continue to always remind myself and work on is that I am not my work? Yeah, and I think in the area of ministry we tie ourself to our work so closely. So then when somebody comes up and makes a comment like, yes, I agree, we want to schedule them, but you can't always control when somebody walks up to you.
Speaker 1:When they turn the hydrant on. Yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:Because for them it's just in the moment. And I think a lot of times for this guy that you were talking about, he was evaluating the event, yeah, but when we wear it, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that event is us. Yeah, and our leadership, my plan, my dream, my work. Then when the evaluation for the event or the program comes, it feels like a personal attack instead of just an evaluation of the event. When we can start to realize your Wednesday night program is not you, the thing that I think it helps to do more than help the hurtful comments from others. It actually allows us to begin to evaluate it for ourself. Then we can stop feeling like we're a failure because our Wednesday night isn't great, because we're so personally invested that we couldn't hear any of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, you stop taking good advice and bad advice when it becomes about you. Yeah, instead of realizing, the thing that we evaluate with us is are we putting in the effort, are we spiritually you know what I mean like taking the time to prepare ourself, and all of these kind of things become about us. We evaluate those correctly about us, but then we can start to have hard conversations, even with our own self of saying you know what? Our Wednesday night worship is not good, yeah.
Speaker 1:It isn't God bless them for trying.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's not good.
Speaker 1:It's not as good as it should be, and it makes me think that maybe we shouldn't do it every week.
Speaker 2:Right, that's heavy. That's heavy to say. And then we stop putting our head in the sand because now it's an attack on us. Or let's get to the nitty gritty Our sermon on Wednesday night is not landing. That starts to feel more personal until you realize no, no, did you just say I wasn't a good preacher.
Speaker 1:Right, I work really hard at this. Okay, I'm supposed to be doing this. You just said no, this is like the thing that I do.
Speaker 2:God called me to do this Absolutely, and he called you to get better at it too. And I think when we're able to start to have those honest conversations with ourself that we realize, no, these are areas that we can grow in, yeah, and we're not going to grow in them until we're able to be honest about them. And I think for us to do that, we've got to be able to say no, no, these are areas that we grow in. We're not perfect at them. The things that you're the best at right now could get better. You know that.
Speaker 1:And it's not going to I don't know man.
Speaker 2:You heard me T it's pretty good, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1:It's pretty good.
Speaker 2:And us being around each other. Right yeah, you could probably look at my teaching and point out five things I could get better at.
Speaker 1:I would never do that to you, though, and who would be that mean to their friend? But can I?
Speaker 2:tell you, yeah, and to be honest, so we're going to do a little bit of this right now. Yeah, okay, do a little bit of this right now. Yeah, okay, zach. I think one of the things that's helped us the most is our ability to trust each other, to say really hard things and get better. And here's the deal. If all the stuff that we're doing right now is the same, in eight years from now.
Speaker 2:you and I failed each other, my guy, and so we have to have people around us that we trust, that care about us, that can speak into our life positive and the hard things.
Speaker 1:Well, and the way you pitched that of not wanting to fail your friends is so much more important than just well. I didn't want to have a hard conversation. I think for a lot of us, though and I would name this to our friends that are watching or listening is who are those people that I can trust? And that is, I think, a piece of the equation that a lot of us don't always know exactly where to start because we are so afraid to ask, and I think that's where some of those mechanisms of defense come in. But I would tell you, it's probably somebody else that likes to do what you do and is afraid to ask to. I mean, our friendship goes back to. We were both peer youth ministry folks at similar churches in different towns that were kind of doing the same thing. Like this grew out of a shared calling in a different location, and that's one of the things that I would really urge you.
Speaker 1:The kind of critique, insight, wisdom and hopeful growth that you're looking for is probably not going to come from the folks that you see all the time. It's really it's really you know what. It's really hard to be honest with people that you're serving with all the time, not people that you know and spend time with all the time. But for your volunteers or your fellow staff members to really be that person is hard. But to have someone who is the invested friend or the small circle of two or three that get it and understand you, could be really, really significant.
Speaker 2:All right. So let's talk about building people around us that can weigh opinion into our life. Yeah, what's some encouragement that you would give to somebody right now that's listening, that's going? Man, I don't know that. I have that. Yeah, how can they start to build that amongst like, maybe even their volunteers, other staff member or a close friend like you and I have?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What would be some encouragement advice?
Speaker 1:So flip it the other way. Don't ask who you'd receive critique from. Who do you turn to for wisdom? Who do you want to be like, or who do you want to like man? I wish I had the skills that he had. I wish that I could communicate as well as they do. People that we want to get wisdom from are often far more receptive. Are we to receive critique from? The old line is like don't receive critique from anybody that you wouldn't ask or seek wisdom of.
Speaker 1:Like folks that have like comments. They get to have comments, but true critique that challenges, forms and conforms us needs to come from people that we think are wise enough to help guide us and shape us through. Like the offhanded whatever, yeah, let that splash across the pond. But who, if the comment is teaching? Who's somebody? Like man, like the way they do it?
Speaker 1:I don't know if I could be them, but I love the way that they do that. I love how he leads. I want to spend time learning how he leads. I don't know how they do it, but they balance time between ministering their family better than anybody else. Will you please just teach me? And then, from those relationships of admiration, I think we can begin to foster some of that. That was our friendship. Like I love the way you led, I love the way that you taught, I was like I want to tell Mike again we're very different people but I valued what you did enough that I asked for help in the ways. Eventually and it wasn't the first conversation, but that's where it got to- I one of the pivotal things.
Speaker 2:I don't even know if we've ever even talked about this on podcast. Eight years and we haven't covered it I like that and we probably have. But one of the most impactful conversations you and I have had internally for our friendship is really talking through like we've gotten to the place where we can upset each other. We're not gonna leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, almost like this, like quasi marriage relationship um, he makes me mad but I'm staying around. Yeah, we got a mortgage and kids. Oh, no, it's not true, no, but what if we bought a boat together? That would be the thing, that's the one thing missing, that's the one thing missing is a shared boat. Yeah, we buy a boat together. That's the. Yeah, I want a dune buggy. You want a dune buggy together? Yeah, we want a side-by-side.
Speaker 2:No, but the ability to have a friend, that we're able to say the hard things. But we know that, like I'm not giving up on you, yeah. You stink at this.
Speaker 1:You got to get better Right, or even just like that wasn't your best Right, not even like you should give this up, but like that wasn't your best. Nobody ever says that to people anymore.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing For you and I. If somebody else were to say that to me, it would feel so much different than if you did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because for you, like when you say those kind of things to me, I always feel like you're trying to make me better and not tear me down.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's one of the big differences when we don't have the people that we trust, we don't know the motive. So one of the things that I think has helped me from the random criticism that I get from other people is I'm always reminded of the like therapy phrase. Like hurt, people hurt.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, like if people have pain, they're going to hurt other people. Yeah, it leaks out, and so anytime somebody ever comes and says something to me that immediately hurts, I've started to actually train myself of going. I wonder what has hurt them in that area that has caused them to say that to me. So when the mom comes up and she makes the phrase my kid doesn't like coming on Wednesday nights, right, it's because she don't like coming on Wednesday Winston.
Speaker 1:It's a long drive from the other side of town.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, but you immediately start to think through. If you're a mom, yeah, and you're going to say this, and let's be honest, sometimes we've got to know our people well enough to just go. Susan's got a critical spirit.
Speaker 1:She's got a critical spirit or she's got a tough kid, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But for her that hurt may be. I got a really tough kid that doesn't want to come.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I want them to come. I don't know what to do as a parent.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was hoping you did. I'm trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then we can diffuse the situation. Turn to that mom and go hey, I want your kid to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Probably not as much as you do, because you're her mom. Yeah, and to vocalize that, give her validation I know you care about your kid, I do too. Yeah, how do we work together to try to solve this? Yeah, it's not the immediate think tank of going oh, we got to play more games, we got to do this, we got no, no, no. Meet the mom where she's at in that moment. Try to figure out the felt need of where this criticism is coming, and it's hard to do that when it just becomes personal and it's about you trying to lead a ministry that does different things to reach different kids and we can start to talk through with mom or whoever. Now, hear me, sometimes you're not going to have the answer and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Like you're not Superman or super woman, you're not perfect in all of this, but you're trying to lead to the best of your ability and, at the end of the day, if you can sit down and say I am giving in my all and I'm willing to continue to grow, that's all you can do. And I think sometimes in low moments of trial, if we're not emotionally healthy in those areas, then we get wrecked. Every time we walk through difficulty instead of going, no difficulty is going to come. If your ministry is always 100% one, you're delusional.
Speaker 1:Right right. You should clearly find some new friends.
Speaker 2:The minute it gets hard, which is normally about two years, you're going to leave, and I think that's why there's always that and I think it's getting better. But there's always that short time thing in student ministry.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's one of those. The phrase that you used of emotionally healthy that I would share back comes from fostering relationships outside the ministry. I think we talked about it. We should have people in the church that you like. You should find ways to get along with your senior pastor. You should find ways to love and pour into your volunteers.
Speaker 1:I would offer that emotional health for ministry folks is often determined by their external to the church relationships. Like it's your friends, not like the people that you serve with, that you also hang out with, sometimes Like it is your spouse, your kids, your friends, like those folks that don't see you as someone with a minister or pastor hat on, but as like it's the people that you like drink coffee with or go fishing with or go to the gym with or like just spend time with. Then you may have some folks from like a life group or small group that we're all on the same page, we're all raising kids or we all love being at this church together. But that emotional health, like, if you tie it too much to those church internal relationships, you are riding up and down the waves of how well church is going with, how well you're doing, like I. One of the questions I've been training myself to ask more and more as we meet with youth ministry friends is tell me about your friends or hobbies or interests outside of church stuff, like if your whole life is the church office and the church calendar and then maybe a little bit of home calendar sprinkled in.
Speaker 1:I'm nervous again, not judgmental, but nervous for the ways in which you're going to weather storms, like if you don't have a thing or an activity or a pursuit or an enjoyment, like joy meant joy outside of the work of the church. You are going to be at the mercy of the highs and the lows and those are going to come. Chad said it right Like it's just a matter of time before the things that were good become difficult, the things that were difficult hopefully get better before we decide to do other things. And so having the right kind of people, the right kind of support systems, beyond just what we happen to hear in the hallways or the emails that we get or the anonymous notes that were left in our church mailbox Because we want a friend, especially in maybe what is the high or the low of this season I want you to hear that you are loved well beyond just the work that you do, and to never conflate that calling and that work.
Speaker 2:I'll kind of leave us with this, and to me this is the most important part is, if the internal voice for you is not the Lord and you're not taking significant time to meet with Him, to listen to Him, to abide in Him, then the critique voices good and bad right the praise that you get, you will begin to move in that way. The critiques that you get externally, you'll begin to move away from that or answer that, depending on who you are, and those will begin to be the things that shape your ministry and what you do. If your plan is to continue to try to lead students in a ministry by your own efforts and your own abilities, then you will be swayed by the voice of man. We have to become ministers that know his voice and listen to him deeply and intimately.
Speaker 2:If your time in the Word has not gained significantly as you've answered the call to ministry, then you're trying to lead people by the amount of voice that you've just been trying to lead your own life. You need to be listening to the Lord, not only for yourself but for your ministry. That you're listening to His voice, you're diving into the word more than just what am I going to talk about on a Wednesday night, but learning to pray, not only for your life but your ministry, to be led by him, to chase after him. We will often tell volunteers that you can't take students where you're not going yourself. Youth minister, that is true for you. You can't lead a ministry where you're not going yourself. So all the other voices around you, they're important. Listen to them, become humble, but know the primary voice that you're listening to.
Speaker 1:Hey, thanks for listening. If you'd like to learn more about Youth Ministry, booster, the community, the connection, the cohorts, the collaboration that are coming for Season 6, then check out the links below. We'd love to have you connected into a peer group of folks that are ready-made to connect with you, you connected into a peer group of folks that are ready-made to connect with you, folks that share your availability, your context, your experience and your desire to grow in the ways in which they lead and serve in ministry. You aren't alone in this Connection and community are a couple clicks away, as we believe that ministry folks that do ministry together do it better, do it longer. We're here for you, we love you and we'll see you next time.
