Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
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Youth Ministry Booster
Ocean of Curiosity: How to get youth ministry students to read the Bible.
How do I get students to actually read their Bibles?
Join Zac and Chad as we recount some wilds stories of swimming in open waters. Seriously though, Chad why would you push your wife towards the sharks?
Getting students to engage with Scripture starts where they are and nurturing their curiosity so they don't fall into patterns of only reading it during crisis or reciting it as cliche.
Remember, your goal is to create an environment where teenagers can explore the Bible's teachings in a way that resonates with them. It's about fostering a genuine interest and understanding rather than forcing them to open to it.
Join us as we dive into these practical strategies to help your teenagers build a meaningful connection with the Christian Bible.
The role of a great youth minister is as a guide. You are taking people out on the boat to show them how deep and beautiful the ocean really can be.
You are creating a safe space for exploration and that support will help your students journey through the scriptures.
Snack and we're back with another episode of Youth Ministry Booster Podcast. My name is Zach Workin. Hang out in the garage with my best friend Shut it again. How are you? I'm good man, hey, uh, it's almost time for lunch. Before lunch, I had a question for you how, and please, please, feel free to use this at your next icebreaker what size of body of water would you feel comfortable swimming in? Because there's, I feel like there's a body of water that's too large, just the open ocean. That's terrifying. And there's a body of water that's too small, like a mud hole pond, where you're like I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get leeches. So like what, what is the, what is the ramp up for you? What's up? What, what? What body, what size body of water is the largest and or the smallest that you feel comfortable swimming in?
Speaker 1:Um, oh, I feel pretty comfortable swimming in the ocean, just in the open ocean, but I don't want to go out to fall, oh, okay, so in the ocean, but like where you can see the beach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have swam when you couldn't see the beach. Yes, I don't know. You were with other people by yourself. I was, I was okay, so it is that's dangerous. It's a story where my wife, my wife claims that I was willing to throw her to her death.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so um, what a great way to start a story. We, we, okay. So we were in Costa Rica and, uh, there was this excursion thing that we went on, okay, okay, and put us on this boat. They drove us what felt like just out in the ocean to where I could know we could no longer see. But what you heard in a couple people, 20 people, Uh, it's like, well, it was just us and another couple and then the guide, so five people yeah.
Speaker 1:Five people. Yeah, that's how that's, that's that's the shipwreck, that's that's a news story in the making.
Speaker 2:We're out where we can no longer see the shore. Nope, the captain says below you is a reef that comes out. Okay, prove it. So, yeah, so they give us some snorkel gear, tell us to bail out over the side, and then he drives off and you're done.
Speaker 1:Um, oh you rich white Americans Every time.
Speaker 2:Um, and so we, we get off into the water and, like the reef came like out of the dark. Nothingness, um, uh, we're snorkeling, so it's like right up there, it's very close up there, I mean it's. I mean, I say very close up there. You probably still had to dive down about 10 feet to get to the top of it, but then what you could see went down probably another 10 to 15 foot, and then I have no idea how deep it was on either side. Nope, um, never will, never will. But we're swimming at the top. Look in, and there's all kinds of wildlife, okay, small fish, uh, eels, like all this kind of stuff that we can see. And, um, in the back of my head I had read before we went there that off of the island of coca, outside of Costa Rica, is one of the only places in the world where hammerhead sharks traveling packs, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So that little tidbit information in the back of my head and we're, we're floating, we're looking at all this kind of stuff and then, from the dark nothingness, I see this like flash of gray coming up at us and I tried to jump out of the water right Like with my hands and just push and Martha says what the water tension and push the water at it. Martha says that I put my hand on her back and push her down to it.
Speaker 1:I don't think that that's true, We'll get a receipt on that later. You you pushed your wife towards the pack of hammerhead sharks.
Speaker 2:There was not. It was not sharks.
Speaker 1:It was just small fish. No, he went. Hold on, hold on. So you're out in the middle of the ocean with a guide who's going to ransom note leave you, and you saw a cloud of gray fish and we're ready to throw your wife.
Speaker 2:I paid a little bit.
Speaker 1:So maybe you aren't like super confident to swim out in the middle of the ocean.
Speaker 2:I mean, I didn't love it, but I was willing to do it.
Speaker 1:Um see, I would not. I, I uh. I love being on top of the water. I'll go anywhere you went to on top of the water swimming. I will not swim further than I can either like touch a boat or see the shore, just like the idea of being in a body of water where you're like, yep, there's probably land. Eventually You're out. I'm out. Even with a life jacket, I'm out. I'm out.
Speaker 2:too much too far, so like but. But I've seen you at a lake where the boat drives off.
Speaker 1:I can see the shore.
Speaker 2:I can see the shark, it's over there.
Speaker 1:I've got a life jacket. It's over there, Even if I'm really tired. Even if I'm really tired, I could. I could eventually make it over there.
Speaker 2:I'm about to go on a cruise for my anniversary but you've got a big boat.
Speaker 1:Again, I'm trusting the big boat. So yeah, yeah, I mean not every big boat has worked out that way, but Come on, really poor stories, yeah Um yeah, your history channel DVR must be really like tuned right now.
Speaker 2:So what is it? What is it? So? It's just, you're afraid something's going to come up and get you or what.
Speaker 1:I just feel like that's. That's not safe. This is too far. It's like climbing a mountain alone, like, yeah, you could, but you shouldn't. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to be able to get to a boat that's right over there or the shore that I can see, all right.
Speaker 2:So you have some sort of plan, right?
Speaker 1:I gotta have a plan, yeah, yeah yeah, you guys have some sort of plan A plan to get into it.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it, I like it. So, today, what we're gonna be talking about?
Speaker 1:is-.
Speaker 2:Swimming in the deep.
Speaker 1:Swimming in the deep.
Speaker 2:And the task that most of us have as youth pastors is we wanna get our students into spiritual disciplines, into a deeper relationship with the Lord, and a plan helps so in that Tiny boat, four teenagers maybe they're dating, maybe they're not you gotta kick them out of the boat, out of the middle right. Just drop them in psh splash Boom yeah that's it and I dude okay, so let's go back in time, cause I think anytime we think about how to help students in things like spiritual discipline-.
Speaker 1:Starting when we're younger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's think about ourself. Yeah, for you, what were things when? Not now? Yeah, because I think a lot of times we think about-.
Speaker 1:We teach out of our own frame of reference, which is the thing that we would start and say you cannot teach where you currently are. Yeah, you gotta teach the things you've already covered, which is why youth ministry can either be really boring or really exciting, cause it means you get to cover a well covered ground.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, yep, so Zach working. Yeah, let's go back for you all the way to like middle school working.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Okay, Arizona jeans, no fear. T-shirt.
Speaker 1:CR Big Canyon, River Blues and Mossimo t-shirts but pretty close.
Speaker 2:You were a Mossimo guy.
Speaker 1:Mossimo man, Mossimo yeah, yeah, yeah that picture was-. Did you have like the?
Speaker 2:color, changing where you like, blow on it in different ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had some of the sun. The UV died like that. Would like get the UV light and change that's. It was so cool. I paid extra, I paid extra.
Speaker 2:All right If you could help that teenager. Yeah, get into spiritual disciplines, and that's a very broad topic. Let's keep it to being in the word yeah and consistent prayer time.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the first, I think, is easy to name and then hard to get past. Oh, okay, in the same way that swimming, it's like we gotta teach you to float Cause, forget strokes, forget, forget speed. I got teach to float.
Speaker 1:I think for a lot of students, scripture only becomes relevant when there's either a big curiosity or a big crisis. So it's like wait, that verse said what? Or like I am going through this, is there a verse that will help? And so, or and this is. I think this is like the like. If we're doing like the decision tree, things either exist in, like the curiosity or the crisis, or they wind up becoming a cliche. Either way, right, it becomes like the Philippians 413 Christian right, like they've got Jeremiah 2911, philippians 413, and it just kind of stops there. I think that is the first barrier to work through. I think some folks address curiosity and crisis with too much deep right. Like. It becomes this, like well, here's all the things theologically about what scripture says.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things that scripture in its design is it gives us stories of people walking through relatable relevance a tricky word, but relatable human challenges. Right, like not everybody's Abraham and Isaac, but a lot of young men are tempted, and so stories like David and Psalms like 50 are helpful. Maybe we're not kings, maybe not going to war, but I think your role as the shepherd, as the pastor, is to talk about here's someone in a big leadership way that was tempted. Let's read about the life of David. I think some of those Old Testament biography things like the reason that all that's in there not just in like a meta history of like, here is the history of a people that would birth Jesus. But we get some of these like lenses on stuff gives us access to talk about some of the Gideons and Debra's and Moses. And again, it's not one to one. You are not Moses, she is not Sarah, but like there is a little bit of that like access by way of shared stories.
Speaker 1:Let me back up a little bit and say I think even the design of the Old Testament is such this is from like seminary stuff, like Psalms is in the middle because literally like that's the best place to get dropped in. I think, even before the curiosity and the crisis, the easiest way, on a regular basis, to address all your students is to be sharing Psalm verses along with Psalm songs, Like if we're gonna sing in worship. We need to read scripture in worship. That helps to root it.
Speaker 1:I think from there it's the crisis, cliche curiosity into like that's a weird story and giving them better and fuller stories is really important or otherwise it's just gonna exist as like things that are are zany or things that are like Desperation, and from there I think there's some ways to connect. Well, you know, david's important, not just because of his screw ups, but because there's also tie all the way down to Jesus that a lot of folks David was kind of the idyllic leader, but he was a screw up, but it was through his family line that we get to know Jesus becomes that theological yeah, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So like I feel like what you just said, like as a youth as a framework, we get it. But for middle school student you're probably not gonna rattle off all of that. No, that's right. That's right. What? How would you then start to like put that in their hands?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think one of our great resources at life with students are the little 30 day devotionals that will link. You think those?
Speaker 2:are enough to like their. This is not a plug, but like they're right size they're right I think the curiosity that you're talking about the curiosity or it's a conversation point.
Speaker 1:I think that's where the reason we get crisis and we get curiosity as the only mode is because students are coming to us with, hey, what should I read, or did you know this? Instead of us coming to them right sized, because when you preach a passage, you kind of have said everything you were going to say about it, right, like that's why you preached it. But if it's like, hey, man, let's group of students, we're all going to read these verses together and talk about them. I think some of that is the approach of are you preaching these at them or are we legitimately reading these verses together? I think students don't have enough opportunity to read verses together and ask questions about what they're reading. They're expected to ask questions of how they apply in their lives like that.
Speaker 1:Well, there's one criticism that I would give more youth pastors today that I have seen that I think is an easy correct with the right kind of like noticing is that All the small group questions immediately jump to like well, what does this mean for us? There's no space for your student to ask like, what are these verses even mean? Like to To fish five loves? What a lame lunch, right, like, if Jesus is gonna bless a meal, let's get some like fruits and veggies in here. Right, like I mean there's no, there's no conversation around like what actually is In the text, it's just immediately how does it supply? And we shouldn't be surprised when it's highly personalized, privatized understanding of scripture, because we've never actually been allowed to discuss it and get it wrong or learn what's right, because it's like here's the verses, we're gonna tell you what they mean. What do you think it means for your life? And that middle part really matters.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think I think too, especially if our, if our goal is we're trying to help students be in God's word Right, start to understand, like, how to read it, create space in their life if that's the win, yeah, right, then I think what we're trying to create is this like fun environment for relationship to happen, right, like I could imagine for myself If this was a big goal right when I'm a student pastor of hosting something at my house, yeah, where it's like, hey, we're gonna walk through this together come every Friday night, like bring food, or we're gonna, it's gonna grub out on some Taco Bell, yeah, and we're just gonna talk about what we read. I think for students, they are still in that mindset of homework, yeah, and I think giving them like a set yeah, okay, you get, you need to have this read by the time you get there, yeah, is manageable for them. Yeah, it's like, okay, I understand the expectation, understand the assignment, that's okay. Yeah, and I think where they're at in this point in their life, like Giving them normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's the textbook, yeah, here's what you're gonna read, here's what we're gonna discuss, and letting them know, too, that it's not like this test. I think some of them, if this is brand new to them, there's that hesitancy of like I don't know if I get it wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like if I come to this group, am I, am I gonna get asked that really tough question? Yeah, I love what you're talking about keeping it to where it's about what's happening in the text, right, and it's not this like I Think there are times where it's like okay, james, how do we apply this? Yeah, what does it mean? But if our goal is getting kids in the word, like that's the goal like that is the goal is to get into the word, to learn more.
Speaker 1:Like to nerd out on this with commentaries and concordances, I think for some. I Think we're living into a time where students are more and more hesitant to share about themselves deeply, but they want to share about what they and my wife, who's a Teacher and does pedagogy for other teachers like there needs to be safe spaces to share what you notice, not just how it makes you feel. Hmm, like they need to be able to look at a verse and like outside of their own, like lived experience, be. Like why does it say that way? Right, like why is Job in the Bible? Yeah, god doesn't seem like a very good God if we just read Job. Yeah, song of songs is weird. Yeah, I'm gonna take some notes for some, you know, pick up lines later, but it's weird and they need to be able to say that without being like what is song of songs?
Speaker 1:Meet my dating life, I know it. Just like these are weird texts and I think that's that curiosity part. Like they have curious questions but they have no space to ask them because so much of our time in small groups or Bible study Is the push to get down to like either the deep meaning or the personal application, and I get it. You feel urgent because you want it to really matter. But the curiosity for wanting to read more scripture might also matter. Right, so that it doesn't just fall on the ears when there's like a crisis and it's like give me the, give me the line.
Speaker 2:Give me the line for like, whatever is well, and that's good, and I think that's a good way for my mind to wrap it around, because I know that I've been guilty of that and not guilty Maybe that's a wrong word, because I think I think what we're talking about is realization that the discipleship that we have with these students is not just in like a one-time setting Right, like if the goal is to read right and get them into the habit of that, like understanding that you have other programs or small groups or whatever that get into the life, or maybe even other scenes.
Speaker 1:They're alive. Yeah, this is the beauty of Paul's language of some, some plant, some water. Like it's not on you to account for all their discipleship in the three years of middle school that you have them. Yeah, it's to do the most with the time that you have and not try to rush them, rush them out of their seventh grade experience into an 11th grade application. Answer like, just cultivate the curiosity of being a seventh grader that, like the word ass was in scripture. Like oh my gosh. Like my dad says we can't say that yeah, I read it in the Bible and so that's why is it in there? Why does that work get used? And then the animals talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's weird, but what is that story? Yeah me oh.
Speaker 1:Yeah the God did that. And then again, the thing that you have shared, that you maybe this is okay to say celebrate or thankful in our friendship, is that often when I run into a problem, I don't stop, I just keep trying to figure out how could we solve that problem. And I think we've got to cultivate that curiosity in students, because if you can get them curious in scripture, beyond just what's weird and to what else might be there, then the time they might be in the word is limitless compared to the two hours a week you get them. You want to fight the two hours a week or the two out of five Sunday problem. Get them curious about scripture and stop trying to answer all their questions by 1130 on Sunday.
Speaker 1:If you do that, they'll never pick it up, and that's why it matters so much that we're asking the kind of things that aren't just immediately applicable, but like what did you see here? Give them the tools to see and read and learn and connect beyond. Just what does it mean? How does it affect our lives? That's selfish. That's selfish.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think for the kids too, that God prompts like they. If they need to get to that application, they will.
Speaker 1:They will yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like, and then they get to it wrong, yeah, and then I get to it right later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I love that to be reminded of, like the goal in it of just going like we're going to read, we're going to talk about it. Man, that's so good. I think I wish, I really wish, somebody would have explained that better to me when I was younger, in ministry, because there were so many times where it was like I felt like I had to do it all and looking back, thinking about a middle school student, like if there's any parts of that that you start to feel uncomfortable, then it's like, well, this doesn't work for me, you know what I mean Like oh, I failed at the reading part, so I'm not going to go to the group, right, I'm not going to get the application.
Speaker 2:Well, or they did the reading, yeah, they get there, and then you want to start like hammering on this, like application, and now the kids like I haven't really even thought about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just finished reading in the car because they're 11.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and and for that kid. Then it's like well, man, I got asked this really pointed question that I didn't know the answer to, and now it's like you're discouraged of reading, when the goal was just reading just starting starting to get them acquainted to God's word.
Speaker 2:I think for me, one of the things that I would look back on is trying to help students overcome some of those hurdles, specifically for a kid that, like, doesn't have much background at all, like helping them even understand, like some of the layout, like oh, these are, this is actually multiple books.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, it's actually a library of a book and not just a book a to z.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Some of that's really confusing. Even down to and not making them feel bad, Right, Like you've got new kids in your ministry that a lot of the other kids have grown up all their life. When you say you know Matthew 412 or whatever, they're going to jump to it.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe, yeah, so I this is something I've been wanting to push back on, okay, for a while. I think we've apt. We've apt so long, yeah, that even your most biblical students don't know where stuff is Okay, because it's all been searched, sure. I mean, it really has become like an index that we're searching and not a book that we're flipping through Again. Post in the comments. Some folks are like this is why paper Bible's, only this. I'm back and forth. I get it because I know that most of you that say that also use all the internet tools, right?
Speaker 2:To write your service.
Speaker 1:So like, okay, it's both. But I do think that, like even for your most biblically literate students, the art of the composition. So I'm thinking about now. I even said the Psalms is in the middle, it's the best place to drop in, not if you're searching. You don't know that, right, you don't know that you start in Genesis and you're like Nope, yeah, because I rushed to the end. Revelation.
Speaker 2:Nope, right, because what other, what other? What other book is a kid picking up in the middle, in the middle?
Speaker 1:or or two thirds of the way through, but it's actually four, starts Like that's my favorite part about the Gospels for kids. It's like, well, there's like four of them. They all start with Jesus, but differently. But Luke's actually connected to acts. John just kind of cut in the middle, like how you could never know that. And that's your job to help teach some of those framework things in bite size chunks, along size of the reading of bite size chunks.
Speaker 1:The application will come, it will. And I think the temptation so not the guilt, but the temptation to always make it apply too soon is not the patient work of what we're actually doing. Yeah, like it is. So I coach my six, six year old soccer team. Yeah, I want them to do great. We, our drills are real basic. We're out there on the field playing a real game. But the drills when we practice super basic, sure, we aren't passing on the run, we're doing like ball taps and like we're in a line and we're just like straight lace passing back and forth to each other. The game is still going to happen. And I want them to have the application of like no, and you're going to. We're going to run like left winger, right winger and we're going to go up and then we're going to pass, like they will fall into that accidentally and all cheer. But the drills that we're doing are so much more basic, to just fall in love with, like I can control the ball that's good.
Speaker 1:And I know how to kick, like I know how to kick hard, Like that's, that's it, that's where we're at right now, and I think some of those things of like yeah, life, it's, life's not going to pause for your students, so there's a temptation of like we've got to have application of what's happening in their life right now. But there needs to be an element of your ministry plan platform design that allows them just to love the word for what it is and how they can learn to study it. That's hard to do in your large group teaching thing on a midweek or Sunday to the whole room. Like this is the reason that maybe program isn't everything and program cannot be everything.
Speaker 2:So to to utilize your sports relationship. I think back when I was that age. Yeah, dude, like middle school, like football practice was the worst. It's lame, okay, yeah. If you still love the game after it's over, right, but the thing that made me love it so much, so much, was my team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like dude, even between like sprints and running plays over and over again like there was like messing around and having fun and like throwing the ball before and after and even like I look think back of like coaches. You know like we would. We would do stupid stuff like playing pranks on our coach and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Sweatshark in the Bible hilarious, Just stuck it right in.
Speaker 2:I think, when we start to talk about helping students learn things like being in the word, like that community is so important in it, and so, along with creating like okay, we're going to expose our students to the word, allow them to play with it, interact with it, like learn from it.
Speaker 2:I love your idea even to of like you know, maybe they show up and you mentioned like commentaries, things like that. For most middle school students, they don't have access to something like that. They don't even know it exists, right, and so, like to show up to a room and you have yours out on the floor of like hey, as we talk about this, if you want to jump in, these are commentaries, these are Bible dictionaries, whatever right that they can start to explore in and look at, and that kind of deal. But like, creating the fun environment I think is really important and allowing it to where you don't have to like have a planned game, but it is just that space where, like this is going to be enjoyable for us. This we're not worried about pacing in it, those kind of things, I think. I think something like this could be really great to walk some like core students through, you know it may not be all your kids larger group and I think that that could be really fun.
Speaker 1:The sign up for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, I think that it would be awesome, I think, looking back, like when I became a believer in high school, like this, that would have been something that I would have really like, loved to have been a part of.
Speaker 1:So you asked me to bring it back to the start, what middle school Zach needed to get into the word. My youth minister gave me lots of heads up. I think it was like a 30 day window. So you're going to teach. Here's your scripture. I want you to sit with it, read it. And he walked me through. And it was Sunday afternoon, so church in the morning I go to lunch with my family, come over to his house. It was like like parsing style, like close to the church, and there was a Sunday that we read it together and just talked about it, highlighted, underlined, looked at what the text, the words were. There was a Sunday afternoon that we consulted some commentaries Like this is one that would be helpful, it's very readable a Bible dictionary like very rudimentary, rudimentary tools. So there was like study, there was tools and there was outlining of like what is the passage say and what do you think is trying to communicate.
Speaker 1:And then we went through and kind of roughed it because he knew I was in speech and debate, I love to talk, love to teach, and so he's like we're going to do this and we're going to process it together. Probably can't do it for all of your students, but he created an assignment. It wasn't just like what does it mean? Well, where will it go? What would it take you? And I think about that a lot, about the ways in which, for an eighth grader at the time, which was a big ask that I got to teach, and it wasn't just like you seem ready enough to teach, but the commitment to the process with me.
Speaker 2:And it's stuck with you, it's that with me, stuck with me. So that's cool, well, and I think I think if you're watching or listening, there are probably people that have students that are right there at the cusp.
Speaker 1:And they're ready for the homework.
Speaker 2:It is helping them wade into the shallow waters so they can eventually go into the deep waters. But understanding that, as people who have been in it long time, the big open water of just go and read can feel really overwhelming if you can't see the shores.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you need a guide and a boat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's that?
